Posted on 02/14/2016 12:50:31 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
It’s not every day that anti-war groups find themselves cheering on leading Republican presidential candidates. But, then again, this hasn’t been a presidential campaign that’s stuck to the script.
The morning after he called the Iraq War a huge misstep and argued that President George W. Bush lied to get the country into it, Donald Trump has earned praise from, of all places, Code Pink, the group best known for protesting the Iraq War and subsequent military interventions.
“I watched the debate last night and LOVED IT,†Code Pink co-founder Medea Benjamin said in an email.
(Excerpt) Read more at huffingtonpost.com ...
And especially since there are very clearly highly powerful and malevolent demonic forces behind Islam as manifested in the middle east we know today.
You can NOT, NOT, NOT fight that with the arm of flesh.
We need to look to our own commitments to God, and more than the superficial level at which Ted Cruz has been. I fear a Cruz that is like the Cruz we have today (noting, however, that that could change) more than a Trump, because Cruz would project a false ceiling for Christian faith. Trump makes no such pretense to the extent that Christian faith can go.
The little tricks are starting to add up.
“I hate to be on the same side as Code Oink on any issue. I supported going to war in Iraq on the basis of Saddam Hussein flagrantly breaking a long series of UN resolutions as well as cheating on the sanctions for many years while enriching himself. Having said that, I can’t disagree with Trump that many lives were lost, billions of dollars were spent (borrowed money, not budgeted), and the US has nothing to show for it, except for more ongoing problems in the ME and lots more debt.”
Saying that the Iraq war didnt work out well is very different than saying Bush LIED to start it and implying that Bush was responsible for 911.
Alright. Good advice.
Yet as thought exercise if you will, when second-guessing what has happened in the past, we do need to open our eyes for why whatever happened the way that it did existed, and then extend thought towards what would have been likely outcomes had "we" (The United States, as expressed through the words and deeds of our elected representatives) done differently.
My own father, (now deceased) back in the early 1980's, when I remarked to him "what about those brave mujahideen", himself having long before recognized that Islamic radicalism was more of a long-term fundamental existential threat to American representative democracy than was even the then-Soviet Union, replied "son, we should be helping the Soviets".
Yet if we had, then what?
Wouldn't that have helped led to expansion of Soviet influence, eventually playing out against us if (or when) whoever was came to power in the Soviet Union decided they would like to use Islamic nations to do their dirty-work against the USA?
The Soviets at that time were well-programmed to view the USA as the source of all their problems (when the truth was communism doesn't work, because of the inherent flaws of human nature -- to which there is only one known, effective cure-- which is to be born again, as Christ is attributed to saying documented in the gospel of John, chapter 3, verse 5).
Three cheers for the man from Brooklyn! (If that's how you came about assigning yourself your handle here that is...)
We have a winner, no more calls please.
New York City "values" may not be shared universally with fly-over country Americans, but Brooklyn Attitude(s) have their charms, as rough as those may at times be, and ARE widely shared among Americans in "fly-over" country.
Just saying...
I think the USSR had to work through its own folly before it could be helped.
Russia DOES have a Christian influence now, even though it is the Russian Orthodox church. That has kept it a lot more free, even with Putin’s new restrictions. Atheism really bit the USSR hard.
“My image of conservatives is totally blown. I never imagined they’d fall for a charlatan like this.”
Amen. They WANT to believe. They want someone who will fight for them, a savior. That’s how people get taken in by con artists. History shows that Trump will say anything to get what he wants and to ingratiate himself with people. Its obvious but they refuse to see it. We become the bad guys for pointing it out.
How about Reagan’s trust but verify here?
Trump has said he wants to deal, and some early results are promising, like the Trump-Sessions manifesto on bearing arms.
People are plain lazy and want a genie, not a door of opportunity. If Trump is treated as a genie, he will be a genie subject to whoever DOES consent to work with him.
You'll find no argument from me, there.
As included within proof-of-concept test run, it miserably failed. Sour fruit (seriously dangerous to human health) mixed with whatever accomplishments under science and engineering etc., they were able to realize under that system (by hijacking technology from the West at many key junctures).
Setting aside Nature's God (as understood to be, and considered by the founders of the United States and author's of the original Constitution) leaves a yuuge void for authoritarian dictatorship.
Without hard check (built-in resistance) to totalitarianism, while lacking also sense of Liberty as intended by Nature's God, totalitarianism is among logically expected eventualities, the only real question being "how long will it take" to get there.
God let the USSR burn itself that way. Not that He was asking them to do it, but we know this is a universe that allows a certain scope of choice. The fine details of how “free” choices are can be left to the theologians and philosophers to tease apart, but we know choice is an essential piece of the picture.
Anyhow, to play ball with it like the USA did in WWII was purely a matter of necessity. Any further outreach had to wait until the USSR was spiritually ready. When it saw that its cisterns were so broken that it had nowhere else to go (and happily, the Russian Orthodox were willing to step up to the plate, bearing no grudges).
I hope the USA does not burn itself with a de facto atheism. Christianity has a stronger voice in the USA and the USA could avoid such a fate. But Christianity needs to actually be about Christ, to belabor the obvious. It can’t be about men, can’t be about churches, certainly can’t be about globalism.
I think too of how czarism made it easier to slide into the atheist, authoritarian model. The Russian Orthodox had been kowtowing to the czars. That kind of Christianity has a serious problem with its light being under a very ornate bushel basket.
How Christianity fares in Russia will have a lot to do with how Russia fares.
“NO we didn’t end up with the WMD but Bush did what he thought was right and I believe he did.”
Fact: Saddam HAD WMD and we know this because he used them on his own people. They had been produced in Iraq (I know some of the people who were inspectors) after Desert Storm. Is it hard to believe that he gave up his entire stock pile, or that all his labs were found? That he kept nothing in reserve? Factor in that he wouldn’t allow inspections before GW II and that he repeatedly violated UN resolutions. He certainly acted like a guy with WMD and something to hide.
It is my position there was no conclusive intel Saddam had WMD and that he posed any real threat to America. Bush and other’s in his administration knew that, but decided to convince Americans with half truths (no quarter truths... no less than that!) we needed to invade Iraq to protect ourselves from another horror like September 11, 2001 or worse. They claimed Saddam had Chemical and biological weapons that could be used against us and that Saddam had an active secret nuclear weapons program, and we needed to act now before it was too late. It was a pack of lies, and like a fool I fell for it.
Now you be clear! What in those video clips of Bush and other’s in his administration speaking on his behalf, is true? Listen to their words and list all the statements that are true. If their words are not true and they are not, they are lies!
To push it from a statement that “We believe” Saddam had WMD, to “We know” Saddam had WMD, is to abuse trust.
Of course GOP tends to get held to a higher standard than Dems on such things. Seems unfair, but again that’s what having higher ideals implies. If you’re about feeeeeeeewings and you say so, nobody will hold you to standards of truth. You never claimed any.
How, exactly, does blaming Bush, 15 years later help Trump win rightie or conservative votes here? Unless....getting rightie votes isn’t his real goal and motivation.
And where is Trump’s condemnation for the Obama regime....seven years later....which has set back race relations 100 years, pitted Americans against each other like never before, divided us into special interest grievance ‘groups’, and kept our economy and employment at lowered expectation permanent recession levels.
Why is Trump so anti-Republican while running as a Republican? Instead of blaming the RINOs currently serving along with conservatives who fell for their promises, he’s falling back on that old leftist meme of always blaming Bush. Instead of talking about the real issues that are ONGOING and destroying our nation, he blames Bush? WTF?
Trump is just showing who and what he really is. Too bad some are too willingly blind and deliberately obtuse to see what some of us see all too clearly now.
Well bully bully hurrah!
Most of those things you list could have been accomplished without invading Iraq and the great lose of Americans lives and limbs and eyes and ....
and without spending how many trillion? Nobody actually knows do they how much $$$$$$$$$$$$
Now we have an explosive M.E with Iran as the strongman, yes Iran who has made it clear they will destroy America the great satan. We have ISIS a Islamic terrorist caliphate state and a totally corrupt Iraqi govt. What we don’t have is all those Christians who once lived there, they are DEAD!
The rest of the things on your list is total bullshite! We haven’t deterred anyone ... I guess you have forgotten all the regional wars and terrorist attacks including the ones against us. You are touting Libya!? It is an insane hell hole breeding jihadists bent on killing us! &%^$#@
No Russia has emerged as the power in the M.E and Russia’s cohorts the Iranian crazies who are continuing in their nuclear weapons program and missile delivery systems. Yes Iran who just captured American sailors who were left to be abused and ridiculed while Obama and his strategically placed transgender quislings in America’s military, smirked.
It was Saudi’s who attacked us on September 11, 2001 and they were funded by the house of Saud and Saud is still funding terrorism against us. Bush and his cronies protected the Saudi’s and the trail was shredded. That is who’s door we should have knocked not Saddam’s the puny bluffer dictator.
Humans are born imperfect and to expect them to be perfect is to expect the impossible. God granted man freewill with the specific intent of allowing man to make mistakes.
It’s how man responds to those mistakes that makes him one with God.
Humans are walking excuses. Why you have brought this to a higher plane I don’t know. Which is why I said no answer I can give will satisfy you.
“They want someone who will fight for them, a savior.”
One of the saddest posts I’ve ever seen here in 17 years is a poster, very sincerely, saying *Trump will save this country*
“One of the saddest posts I’ve ever seen here in 17 years is a poster, very sincerely, saying *Trump will save this country*”
People who are drowning will cling to anything to try and stay afloat.
My understanding is that chemical weapons were found in Iraq :
I also understand that yellow cake uranium was found in Iraq, and removed :
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/07/world/middleeast/07iraq.html?_r=2&;
And lastly I understand that Iraqi chemical weapons were re-located to Syria immediately before the US invasion :
Your assertion, and Trump’s assertion last night, requires evidence that Bush administration officials knew when they made the case for the invasion that there were in fact no WMDs. I have seen no evidence for this belief.
But of course you are free to reach your own conclusions. If you find “Bush lied, people died” credible, and if that lends weight to Trump’s candidacy in your eyes, that is your business.
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