Posted on 04/12/2015 7:21:25 AM PDT by cotton1706
Are you aware of the grave and serious problem that is threatening your liberty and the security of the United States? The current Congress gives Washington, D.C., including the Internal Revenue Service and the Environmental Protection Agency, more and more power to "legislate" and enforce laws that illegally circumvent the Constitution.
Our political process has been corrupted and the federal bureaucracy has produced severe regulatory burdens that have caused our national debt to grow to $19 trillion.
And there is another $100 trillion coming due in vested Social Security benefits and other programs. We are in a financial crisis that is unsustainable.
Congress has turned state legislatures into their regional agencies rather than respecting them as truly independent sovereign governments.
If we "citizens" do not intervene, then the federal government will continue to bankrupt this nation, embezzle the legitimate authority of the states, and destroy the liberty of the people.
Thankfully, the Founding Fathers were prepared for what is happening today, and provided us with Article V of the Constitution, which empowers individual states to propose amendments.
It was George Mason who wanted this option for "application of the legislatures" for "proposing amendments" because he believed that Congress and the individual states should have equal authority in this matter.
(Excerpt) Read more at cleveland.com ...
I respectfully disagree with you about the risk of a runaway convention. The amendment ratification process prevents moon battery of any stripe from destroying the constitution. Though I would argue that presently we are in the early stages of post constitutional tyranny so the constitution is already destroyed. It seems to me we have four choices before us. Shut up, keep your head down, and do what you’re told. Support a CoS to attempt to re-establish a balance between federal governmental power and state power. Nonviolent civil disobedience. Violent civil disobedience.
Not possible. Three quarters of the states must ratify any proposed amendment for it to become effective. I honestly do not believe there is any chance of what you state occurring. The more likely outcome is that no amendment gets ratified regardless of what is proposed.
For those who think the Article V process is too risky, I ask, “What other options do you see?”
To summarize from a previous post by GraceG, I see it as:
1. Elect More Republicans - Failed due to RINO/Uni-party confluence.
2. Article V Convention of States to propose Amendments - Needed to try to take power from the federal government back to the states and reel in the federal leviathan.
3. State Nullification - Last ditch effort to try to take power back from the federal monster, though by this point it may be too late.
4. State Secession - Could either end up peaceably like the breakup of the Czechoslovakia in 1993 or a brutal:
5. Civil War II like the first one.... The longer we wait on #2, the more likely #3, then #4 and finally #5. .
Quick review: We need 34 states to pass an application, then Congress shall, by law, call a Convention of States as soon as it receives applications from 2/3 of the State Legislatures. That’s 34 states. We now have 30 working on it. Amendments are proposed and voted on at the convention. Each Amendment must be ratified by ¾ of the states in order to become part of the US Constitution. That’s 38 states. “There are far more political and legal constraints on a runaway convention than on a runaway Congress.” - Robert Natelson
Most FReepers are aware of these links, but I post anyway for review and for people new to Article V. It is our responsibility to make Article V the most understood aspect of the US Constitution.
****Please see this summary video from Alabama first: Convention of States - Alabama Way to go Alabama! A great introduction!
Rep. Bill Taylor introduces a Convention of States
The Case for an Article V Convention. Great explanation of an Article V convention to the Massachusetts State Legislature.
**** Convention of States Lots of information here.
Call a Convention A call for a Convention of States
Article V Project to Restore Liberty Another good source.
Convention of States model Resolution
A Summary of Mark Levin’s Proposed Amendments by Jacquerie
Chapter 1 of Mark Levin’s Book, The Liberty Amendments
Mark Levin, Constitution Article V, and the Liberty Amendments
Mark Levin: “The Liberty Amendments” - Complete Sean Hannity Special + other Links
List of Mark Levin You Tube Videos
Mark Levin Article V, Liberty Amendments youtube video hub
Three hour video of C-Span interview with Mark Levin
*** Mark Levin’s ALEC Speech, Dec 4, 2014
Gaining Steam? Nearly 100 Lawmakers Descend on Mount Vernon to Talk Convention of States The beginning.
Mark Levin’s “Liberty Amendments” Sean Hannity Special
We can fight the uniparty! States, the Natural Second Party by Jacquerie
Convention to Propose Amendments to the United States Constitution
The Other Way to Amend the Constitution: The Article V Constitutional Convention Amendment Process
Amendment Booklet.pdf
Friends of Article V Convention Links
Congress’ Present Duty to Call a Convention:
Congress’ Present Duty to Call a Convention. (Part I)
Congress’ Present Duty to Call a convention. (Part II)
Congress’ Present Duty to Call a Convention. (Part III)
Congress’ Present Duty to Call a Convention. (Part IV)
Congress’ Present Duty to Call a Convention. (Part V)
Congress’ Failure to Call an Amendments Convention. (Part VI)
Ulysses at the Mast: Democracy, Federalism, and the Sirens’ Song of the Seventeenth Amendment by Jay Bybee. Repeal the 17th. Shorter Abstract here: Ulysses at the Mast, one page Abstract
****For those of you that still have doubts about the Article V process, please review: Responses To Convention Of States Opposition My initial concerns were resolved after reading these articles. My attitude now is Go For It!
Update: Convention of States by the numbers The current State count
Convention of States Gaining Momentum April 8, 2015, the most recent status
Article V Latest News
Article V Handbook - for State Legislators An important resource.
**** State Legislators Article V Caucus State Legislators, Join up at this site!
Most State Legislatures are in session now. Send this list of links to your State Representatives and Senators here: Contact your State Legislators.
Sample Letter to state Representatives regarding the Convention of States Project and also, Talking Points.
Excellent Article V Letter to a State Assemblyman by Jacquerie
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” - Edmund Burke.
Let’s all work together to get this going.
Excellent Post
How would a Convention of States end the tyranny of the federal government?
I would fear that we could also lose what we already have if our untrustworthy political dictators got together.
Read The Liberty Ammendments, Mark Levin
Watch Hannity Special on the book with Levin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJdwc3q5s0o
A Convention of States is not the same thing as a Constitutional Convention. As per Art. 5 of US Constitution, 2/3 of states can call for a convention of the states. Need 3/4 of states to ratify, so would not have runaway convention according to Levin.
Watch the Hannity You Tube video, it is very informative.
With all due respect, what is your solution? Seems to me we are losing liberty on a daily basis regardless of which party is in control of congress or white house.
Fully agree.
Con con will be the very Pandora’s box we most regret we asked for.
Our problem is not with our constitution, and the solution is not a quick easy fix re-write.
Our problem is much more difficult, namely wide-spread immorality, sense of entitlement, citizen indifference.
We are Rome, and it’s end of the line 378 AD
ully agree.
Con con will be the very Pandora’s box we most regret we asked for.
Our problem is not with our constitution, and the solution is not a quick easy fix re-write.
Our problem is much more difficult, namely wide-spread immorality, sense of entitlement, citizen indifference.
We are Rome, and it’s end of the line 378 AD
Again, watch half-hour Hannity special with Mark Levin, author of The Liberty Amendents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJdwc3q5s0o
This is a really really bad idea. First if a convention is called it will not be a conservative only affair. About half the country is firmly monnbat. Secondly it is Congress that will set the rules for the convention, not the several states. In theory you could have the entire Constitution open to revision.
Sorry, but what these folks are selling, I’m not buyin
Ok, first, I would ask you to look at my other posts as well as some subsequent posts on this thread for information to learn what a Convention of States is; i.e. watch the Hannity video, click on some of the links, etc.
Second, it is not congress that sets the rules. It is in Article 5 of the CONSTITUTION.
With all due respect, you might want to get up to speed on exactly what you are not buyin’.
I can’t understand how continuing what the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation etc. have been planning, and working toward since 1963 can work out well.
Are you sure you are not confusing the Convention of States with a Constitutional convention?
Here’s another one.
***
The amendatory process under Article V consists of three steps: Proposal, Disposal, and Ratification.
Proposal:
There are two ways to propose an amendment to the Constitution.
The Congressional Method requires the House and Senate to pass an amendment by a two-thirds majority.
The Amendments Convention Method requires the legislatures of two-thirds of the states to apply to Congress to call a Convention for Proposing Amendments. The states may request a single-subject convention or a general convention open to all subjects. Once the two-thirds threshold is reached, Congress is required to set a time and place for the convention.
Article V gives Congress and an Amendments Convention exactly the same power to propose amendments, no more and no less.
Disposal:
Once Congress, or an Amendments Convention, proposes amendments, Congress must decide whether the states will ratify by the:
State Legislature Method, or the
State Ratifying Convention Method.
The State Ratifying Convention Method has only been used twice: once to ratify the Constitution, and once to ratify the 21st Amendment repealing Prohibition.
Ratification:
Depending upon which ratification method is chosen by Congress, either the state legislatures vote up-or-down on the proposed amendment, or the voters elect a state ratifying convention to vote up-or-down. If three-quarters of the states vote to ratify, the amendment becomes part of the Constitution.
Forbidden Subjects:
Article V contains two explicitly forbidden subjects and one implicitly forbidden subject.
Explicitly forbidden:
No amendment may be added to the Constitution concerning slavery or capitation taxes until 1808. We’re past that deadline.
No amendment may be added to the Constitution to change the principle of equal representation in the Senate unless every state deprived of that right approves. If California wants five senators, every state must have five senators. To permit violation of this principle, every state would have to ratify the amendment, not just three-fourths.
Implicitly forbidden:
The Constitution of 1787 may not be abrogated and replaced with a new document. Article V only authorizes “a convention for proposing amendments to this Constitution”; therefore, the Constitution of 1787 is locked in place forever. Congress and an Amendments Convention have exactly the same Proposal power; therefore, neither Congress nor an Amendments Convention can start over. Both bodies can only propose amendments. To permit the drafting of a new constitution, this provision in Article V would first have to be repealed; it would be a two-step process.
I have two reference works for those interested.
The first is from the American Legislative Exchange Council, a conservative pro-business group. This document has been sent to every state legislator in the country.
Proposing Constitutional Amendments by a Convention of the States: A Handbook for State Lawmakers
The second is a 1973 report from the American Bar Association attempting to identify gray areas in the amendatory process to include an Amendments Convention. It represents the view of the ruling class of 40 years ago. While I dislike some of their conclusions, they have laid out the precedents that may justify those conclusions. What I respect is the comprehensive job they did in locating all the gray areas. They went so far as to identify a gray area that didn’t pop up until the Equal Rights Amendment crashed and burned a decade later. Even if you find yourself in disagreement with their vision, it’s worth reading to see the view of the ruling class toward the process.
Report of the ABA Special Constitutional Convention Study Committee
The rats have long wished do away with the 2A. Why do you think Pelousi/Reid didn't pass restrictive laws when they had the chance in 2009-2010?
You are in dire need of an Article V education.
Check out the links Art in Idaho posted in #26.
YOu miss the point. THE PEOPLE don't get a vote to ratify proposed amendments. The state legislatures do. It's this kind of (intentional?) misunderstanding of the process that robs your complaints of any logical power.
“YOu miss the point. THE PEOPLE don’t get a vote to ratify proposed amendments. The state legislatures do. It’s this kind of (intentional?) misunderstanding of the process that robs your complaints of any logical power. “
You mean legislatures like Indiana, that just gave gays special protection in an act that was supposed to protect religious freedom? You mean the legislatures of NY & CA? You think the amended Constitution would have any more protection for religious freedom than the current one? Or the courts would pay any more attention to it?
Suppose they passed and ratified an Amendment reading “We REALLY mean what was said in Amendments 9 and 10!” Do you think any court would give a rat’s rear end?
Do you think the country is more or less supportive of states rights in 2015 than in 1783?
Y’all are nuts! We’ll never get MORE protection than what is written in right now, nor will the courts give anything written and ratified more than lip service for a few years.
So what’s your solution? A shooting war? If you refuse to even attempt the methods written into the Constitution expressly for the purpose that is now being proposed, how can you claim to support the Constitution? And if you really think 38 state legislatures will vote to ratify radically leftist amendments, I think you’re deluding yourself.
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/concon/newstates.htm#.VSqTo1GmePM
This is one source, when I research this I use a search engine, I found other sources with the same information
I have been following what the foundations are doing on this issue for over 15 years. I have researched the Convention of States informationn extensively the only difference I have found are based on the opinions of Rob Natelson, Mark Levin, Michael Faris, and others, no hard facts. I have read many responses to those who oppose the Convention of States on their website. They don’t respond with facts they respond with name calling, and ridicule, which indicates to me that there is very little difference if any between a Constitutional Convention, and a Convention of States.
Another thing that concerns me is with the propsed ammendmants, starting with the “Balanced Budget Ammendment”, The bills in state legislatures I have studied don’t address balancing the budget, they allow for Congress to raise the debt ceiling, and raise taxes. The only way to balance the budget is to restrict the amount that can be spent. The logical way would be to repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, which would stop the uncontrolde creation of money out of thin air.
The proposed balanced budget ammendment bills being run in state legislatures are worded very similarly to the ones from the foundations in the past.
If a convention is opened the foundations are well prepared, and extremely well funded to take control, when those people prepare for something they have many alternate plans to accomplish what they want.
” If you refuse to even attempt the methods written into the Constitution expressly for the purpose that is now being proposed, how can you claim to support the Constitution?”
Sorry, but we’re past the point of no return. At best we can moderate big government by electing good people, but that is getting tougher as more and more people in America turn their backs on God and any concept of self-control.
The Anti-Federalists were right: once the structure is created for power, power WILL flow to it. But letting the modern idiots amend the Constitution would only eliminate what mild and mostly toothless protections we now have.
What we need in America is a RELIGIOUS revival. Only then can the power of the majority restrict the excess of the big government types.
“Soft despotism is a term coined by Alexis de Tocqueville describing the state into which a country overrun by “a network of small complicated rules” might degrade. Soft despotism is different from despotism (also called ‘hard despotism’) in the sense that it is not obvious to the people.
Soft despotism gives people the illusion that they are in control, when in fact they have very little influence over their government. Soft despotism breeds fear, uncertainty, and doubt in the general populace.”
We live in a country where everything we do is either REQUIRED or PROHIBITED.
The government believe it’s purpose is to protect it self from the governed.
I am getting tired of my employees (the government)taking my money and ordering me about.
A convention of the states (this is not a CON CON!)
would deprive the government of money causing it to shrink.
I would think an amendment for a balance budget would come first.
Then some kind of flat tax and abolish the IRS.
We must deprive the monster(fed gov)of our life energy(money)
That’s how we get our freedom back.
They were proved very wrong.
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