Evaluating Conservative Attacks On The Garner Grand Jury

Townhall.com ^ | December 5, 2014 | Mark Davis

[rstrahan]

Response of force should be proportionate to the crime. Instead of arresting him, he should have been given a ticket, max, and told to move on. Instead, a force of several police officers were called in, resulting in a violent take-down and the man’s death.

Was it murder? No, but it was clearly involuntary homicide, as their actions resulted in his death. If an individual that was not a police officer did the same thing, you can bet charges would have been filed.

[cripplecreek]

The real blame goes to the New York politicians imo

That's the way I see it as well. Its likely no one would have called the police if Garner had simply moved to a different location every few minutes.

I was passing through the hood the other day and stopped at a party store. There were about a dozen people hanging around out front. They were primarily homeless and crack heads. When I went inside the guy behind the counter was complaining to a customer about the people hanging around the store.

[Biggirl]

They are in rebellion right now. During these times that are difficult, I often think of Romans 13: 1-7 of the reality of authority coming from God.

[Nifster]

Great piece thanks for the thoughtful post

[freeangel]

That would be my solution, too. I’m tired of white officers putting their lives on the line for the likes of a bunch of whiners who don’t step up to do the same .

[Biggirl]

See the problem is that small business do not get the respect they so very much need and deserve, that when folks hang around like that, they scare customers away.

[Nifster]

And please let us not forget that there was a sergeant there who was directing officers as to what to do....SHE is an African American

[Nifster]

fair enough

[muir_redwoods]

I don’t know where this notion that grand juries are infallible comes from. They get it wrong sometimes. They got it wrong in Garner.

[Biggirl]

Take it up with those small businesses that complained about Eric Garner to the police.

[raybbr]

Mark Davis is an ass. I could never stand him when he filled in for Limbaugh.

Garner was a tragedy that could have been avoided if the cops had used some common sense. They are not trained for commons sense anymore. They are trained to use the most force available.

[Alberta's Child]

Response of force should be proportionate to the crime. Instead of arresting him, he should have been given a ticket, max, and told to move on.

That was my initial reaction when I heard that he was being arrested for what was basically a tax violation.

Apparently there was more to it than just that. From what I've read, it was the local store owners who called the police to the scene -- not because he was selling untaxed cigarettes, but because he was harassing the customers entering the stores and strong-arming the store owners. If that was the case, then the police CANNOT simply give the guy a ticket and walk away.

If you watch the entire video, it's obvious from the beginning that the police officer and Garner know each other from Garner's prior legal troubles.

This might be an interesting case in which the grand jury refused to indict the cop because they think he did the neighborhood a huge favor.

[XEHRpa]

> So is going 26 in a 25 zone...

And if you engage in a high speed attempt to evade arrest, all bets are off as to the outcome.

[elpadre]

The problem was also that Gardner resisted arrest. With his lengthy arrest record he should have known the police could not turn their back on him, they had no choice. The arrest had to be made. The choke hold or full nelson are approved methods of subduing anyone resisting arrest.

[FunkyZero]

Mind one thing, I mostly agree with you. However, a “regular citizen” is not expected to detain people or put themselves at risk doing so. If you confront someone and they turn aggressive, you walk away and call the police. LE doesn’t have this option, they HAVE to detain a lawbreaker in most cases. I understand that it’s a very difficult line to judge... what is proportionate force? It cannot be defined and every person will make different decisions based on circumstances... not to mention, we’ve had a lot of time to think about it, unlike the cops at the time. We also need to remember that this wasn’t the guys first offense, or even the first time he’d been in trouble for this same exact thing. I’m guessing he’s also resisted in the past, the cops know these things when they run your name, it’s in the notes. I’m obviously speculating here, but it’s all stuff we need to keep in mind when we watch the video. They may have also been there for 45 minutes trying to negotiate his surrender and that could have led to the large number of officers on the scene. We only get to see a minute or 2 of the interaction. Anyway, I’m still not taking the side of LE on this one, I’m just agreeing that there was no *criminal intent* here by the officers.

[HMS Surprise]

The problem with that scenario is that he had an outstanding warrant.

[fruser1]

In the Ferguson case, I was glad the perp wound up dead because otherwise he would have lived to attack and rob more people. I think the officer responded appropriately.

In this case I’m sorry the guy is dead, but agree with the simplistic summary, “if you resist arrest bad things can happen”.

However, what does (and has always) concern me is the over regulation in the county.

Laws against murder, rape, and robbery, etc.. have been on the books since before the united states, but today we have tens of thousands of pages of laws and regulations, all of which may ulitmately end in a confrontation with a police officer.

So, for example, if someone doesn’t like you and puts in an anonymous false complaint to child protective services and the cops show up without a warrant and you refuse to let them in, you will get taken down.

If your speeding and happen not to have your license, the cop may decide to arrest you because he needs to positively identify you to give you the ticket. This too may result in confrontation.

[iontheball]

I believe all three of those were present in this case and would have voted to indict the officer. I acknowledge, however, that reasonable can disagree on this and hold no animus againast those who come to a different conclusion.
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The key to this case is Garner. Among those present, he was the only one who knew his medical condition. Knowing that, he decided to create an altercation with five or so police officers. His common sense was zero, just like the punk's charging action in Ferguson. Also ask yourself, what were the officers’ choices? They were trying to arrest him and this 300 pounder was refusing. Once the decision to arrest is made, it has to be completed. Officers are trained in what is called the “continuum of force” pyramid. That means you start by requesting cooperation of the subject. If the subject refuses to cooperate, you progressively escalate force. Physical take-down is a standard procedure to effect an arrest on a non-cooperating subject. Even if all five of the officers attacked Garner, he would likely have died from the exertion of resisting arrest, which, again, was his decision alone.

[livius]

One of the things that is complicating this in the mind of some is the statement the author makes about a “silly law “ referring to the law against selling “untaxed” cigarettes. The reason they are “untaxed,” however, is not because there is some special “untaxed” cigarette that these loosie sellers can sell, but because the cigarettes are either stolen or smuggled and are supplied by criminal rings - ranging from the mafia to jihadi groups - that obtain a lot of income from their sale of stolen or smuggled products (not only cigarettes, but they’re an easy one). Stealing a truckload of cigarettes for resale to people like Garner, who then resell them to people on the street in slum neighborhoods, is pretty easy money for them.

Cigarettes taxes may be too high, but that’s another issue. The “untaxed” cigarette is actually part of a much bigger criminal activity.

So that’s why there’s a law against selling them. In addition, activity of this type is treated as a quality of life violation in poor neighborhoods, since the presence of free-lance vendors hustling stolen or dubiously acquired products is an unpleasant feature of street life, attracts other lowlifes who buy them, provides a sort of backdrop for the sales of drugs, etc. This is why the neighbors object and want the situation cleaned up.

Finally, the legitimate merchants in the area, who have paid the full price and bought their cigarettes legally for resale, have a valid complaint about these vendors. In the case of Garner, he was selling his cigarettes right in front of the convenience store. In fact, he had been arrested several times for doing the same thing, so we can see how much fear of the police he had! Why he decided to resist arrest that time is a mystery, but he did, and the consequences were disproportional because of his health problems.

[Roamin53]

Actually the merchants who complained were minorities, the Sergeant on the scene supervising was black and the chief of that precinct is black. If there was any negligence or malfeasance, it definitely had no racial component!