Posted on 01/07/2014 6:48:32 AM PST by BigReb555
The Georgia Division Sons of Confederate Veterans will again sponsor their annual Robert E. Lee Birthday Commemorative on Saturday January 18, 2014 at the Old Capitol Building, 201 E. Greene St., Milledgeville, Georgia.
(Excerpt) Read more at cumminghome.com ...
Fair enough. Perhaps you have an example, other than to say he had political enemies?
If I were to change my statement with reference to our veterans, it would read:
“knowingly and regularly, often daily throughout the duration, confront those who would like to kill him.”
Oooh!
Thanks...will look it up on Amazon...
But he handled himself with such dignity and professionalism that he was saved from a firing squad in the end.
Jeff Davis too? The Union wouldn’t try either one as the issue of Constitutionality of secession would be brought up
and they feared the results.
The other positive thing he did was he used his influence on the rebel hot heads to put down their guns. If things had turned out differently there could have been a guerrilla war for years.
Sure.
Hitler and the Nazi Party. Opposed various indisputably destructive trends in modern art and literature. Put programs in place to prevent cruelty to animals (cruelty to humans was another matter), and protect the natural environment. Opposed the spread of Communism. Provided millions of jobs to the unemployed. Greatly expanded infrastructure. Promoted science and technology. Gave people somethng to believe in. Taught Germans that class differences were unimportant. Promoted equality of rights for all nations. Insisted that citizens' interests be considered before that of foreigners. Provided for care of the elderly. Provided higher education to all Germans, if capable.
Most, although perhaps not all, of these things are in themselves goods.
Now, obviously, the way such policies were implemented often turned theoretical good to practical evil. And such goals were often ignored in practice.
Obama and the Democrat Party? Do you seriously believe every single goal and policy of this party is inherently evil? Or does the purported good simply come at too high a cost or create other problems?
I think it is scary when people believe their political opponents are irretrievably and 100% evil. Such a POV leads in the long run to the notion that the only way to deal with such people is the way we dealt with the Nazis. Military defeat, unconditional surrender and deliberalization (to coin a phrase).
That may perhaps turn out to be necessary, but I can guarantee you the country after such a process won't be one any of us want to live in.
If you were to change your statement, then I would say it did not apply to MLK, Jr.
If you were to change your statement, then I would say it did not apply to MLK, Jr.
You simply do not understand my point, which is of course your prerogative.
While I agree the Nazis were on balance very evil, and I’m happy they were destroyed, it’s just inaccurate to say that EVERY SINGLE ONE of their beliefs, goals and policies were evil.
Here’s a list compiled by somebody else. I don’t, BTW, necessarily agree that these are all Good Things.
http://listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/
It’s interesting you bring up the horrible (true) medical experiments on helpless humans. What is seldom mentioned in polite society is that SOME of these experiments resulted in the acquisition of invaluable data still used today, notably with regard to the human responses to temperature and pressure changes. It’s number 1 on the list.
Too bad he lacked the influence in 1861 to stop the secession hotheads. Lee, unlike the politicians, had the sense to foresee that secession was a disaster.
Pity those millions who, by their (often militant) ignorance, have never set themselves aside long enough to allow that sense of grateful humility to touch them.
Whose fragile self-absorptions and personal agendas can never permit them to acknowledge the historic reality of such things;
'minds' impervious to a sense of awe at the horrible magnificence of the courage that made their squandered freedom possible.
Thank you for your service
Sherman, you seem to be a decent fellow and an intelligent one at that but I don’t see ANYTHING the Nazis did as being a benefit to humanity, and quite honestly, not speaking to you personally but anyone who would advance a position as yours is a moral idiot.
Is banning vivisection of animals “of benefit to humanity?”
How about protecting endangered species?
Taking steps to reduce smoking?
I don’t know if it’s conservatives in particular or Americans in general, but I think it is very odd thinking that because a certain person or group is in general bad, therefore they must be bad in every possible way.
An offshoot of this is that terrorists must be cowards. Terrorists are bad and cowardice is bad, therefore all terrorists must be cowards. This is despite the fairly obvious fact that cowards don’t kill themselves for a cause.
Read over my most recent post, and it’s too positive.
I realize the attempt to recognize that all of use, even the best and the worst, are mixtures of good and evil is very much a minority position. I respect those who disagree, I just look at things from odd angles, I guess.
Sherman it’s a question of “Yes but...’’ “The Nazis were bad but...’’Everything after ‘’but’’ is bullshit. Frankly old boy, I just sent a donation to “Stand With Us’’, a Jewish group that promotes Israels right to exist and offers workshops, student exchange programs and lectures on the real situation in the MidEast.(and I’m a Catholic). This ‘’Nazi’’ thing is now starting to grate on my nerves. The last uncle of my childhood passed away last October. It’s cold as a witches you-know-what and when winter rolls around I sometimes think of old Uncle Fred and millions of guys like him who fought through the winter of ‘44/45 in the ETO. He served with the US First Army(84th. Inf. Div.) during The Battle of The Bulge and came within a hair of having his head blown off by 88mm shrapnel fighting to put those goose-stepping sons of bitches in the dirt. As it was he spent four months in an Army hospital having his face put back together so f**k the Nazis, ok? F**k ‘em.
Only when southern states rights were involved. The southern states begged the Federal government to enforce the fugitive slave act at the tip of a bayonet if necessary because northern states were exercising their “states rights” in refusing to return run away slaves to bondage in the south.
“Apparently, if the Constitution and its mechanisms don’t produce the results you want, it’s okay to take your ball and go home.”
Yes. I think in large part that is what the whole tussle was about.
It is a good question to toss about though.
To summarize why some like me believe secession is a right,
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights—snip—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —snip—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it——etc.”
The Declaration is just that, a declaration of rights between God and man. It references God in one form or another 4 or 5 times. Those rights are between man and God and therefore supreme.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
The Constitution is a mere contract among men. You will not find God in it anywhere nor does it claim anywhere to be in perpetuity. Further, as it is a document of enumerated powers and nowhere in it does it state it can compel its sovereign states to remain within it….and the 10th amendment specifically reserves all rights not delegated to the Federal government to the states or the people respectively-—just to paraphrase for brevity.
And that is why the Southern States, including Virginia, the mother of our nation, and Bobby Lee, the step great grandson in law of George Washington thought the “seceders” had it right. Especially when my childhood hero Honest Abe ignored multiple rulings by the Supreme Court on the illegality of his actions….and…marshaled that pesky army to invade his own country.
The Civil War we are told, settled the matter. It did for that time by force of arms, but not by greater weight of right. It has often been said that given the economic trajectory of the South and North at the time, had the war broken out 20 years before or after 1860, the outcome would have been different.
It appears, given current events, that theory may one day be tested again. And again despite all the legal and philosophical sophistry by the likes of us, it will be settled by force of arms.
A tragedy past and in the making. Peace.
One of the few book reports that I remember giving in grade school was on Robert E Lee. He was a great man. I got an A+ on the report. This was in California. A different time, a different place.
Well met, DoodleDawg.
Constitutionally Abe was the Prez. Unfortunately the war fever had been so well stirred by the fire breathers that emotion got the better of them all and tit for tat....people started shooting at each other.
As we all know, Abe went out of his way to publicly—in some of the greatest oratory ever delivered in the English language—to keep it together, but failed.
He even offered up slavery in perpetuity for the slave states, the oft cited reason for secession, but passions won out. By then is was about power and opportunism.
I would point out though, that them two critters you mentioned, Wilson and Clinton didn’t do us much of a service. Both likewise won out as minority candidates over splintered opposition (Teddy Roosevelt/Taft in 1912 and Bush41/Perot in 1992) and set in motion things I think we could all have done without.
Lee most definitely did NOT think the seceders had it right. He opposed secession right up until VA pulled out and he had to choose between the Union and his State.
Especially when my childhood hero Honest Abe ignored multiple rulings by the Supreme Court on the illegality of his actions….and…marshaled that pesky army to invade his own country.
AFAIK, the Supremes never ruled on whether Lincoln had legal power to invade the South. Chief Justice Taney made several rulings Lincoln ignored, but they were mostly habeas corpus rulings and such.
The Supreme Court, during the period of the war, never ruled on secession, mostly because southern states chose not to address secession via the legal system or in other constitutional means. Instead, they chose to "appeal to arms."
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