Our LAST President...
Posted on 01/05/2014 1:53:12 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
In modern America, sex is increasingly where it should be: outside the reach of government. Anti-sodomy statutes have been tossed by the Supreme Court. Contraception is widely accessible. Anyone with a computer can gorge on pornography without fear of prosecution.
Same-sex marriage has been legalized in 18 states and the District of Columbia. Now another step has been taken to expel police and legislators from the bedrooms of consenting adults: a federal court decision striking down a key element of Utah's ban on polygamy.
Last month, District Judge Clark Waddoups ruled that the law infringes not only on constitutionally protected sexual privacy but on the free exercise of religion. Utah, he concluded, doesn't have to issue multiple marriage licenses to Kody Brown and his consorts, who appear in the reality TV show "Sister Wives." But it can't dictate their living arrangements.
The group belongs to a renegade Mormon sect that regards polygamy as sanctioned by God. Brown is legally married to one of the women and "spiritually married" to the other three. Together, at last count, they have 17 children.
If a man and a woman want to live together and call themselves partners, buddies, teammates, friends with benefits or Bonnie and Clyde, the government will leave them alone. Ditto if a guy can entice several fertile females to shack up with him and spawn a noisy horde of offspring.
But in Utah, it matters what the man calls the women living with him. If he refers to them as wives, he can go to prison. The law covers not only formal polygamous marriage but any relationships in which a married person "purports to marry another person or cohabits with another person." That was the provision ruled unconstitutional....
(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...
Sometimes old sayings don’t apply to every situation. This is one of them. How can the Supreme Court say “sure we’ll allow this unconventional marriage over here but not this one over there”? Unless homosexual marriage is miraculously abolished in the next few months polygamy will be legal by 2018. You heard it here first.
“...conflating government with civilization and society”
False distinction.
That government is one of the offices used is beside the point that Civilization has always ‘enforced’ marriage.
So what makes you feel that is no longer neccessary?
The complaint is REALLY the FACT that we folks who do NOT get into these entangling ‘relationships’ are being FORCED to pay for the awful results they produce!
Nineteen, actually. Plus the District of Columbia.
That’s just childish.
Sorry.
The Founders discussed past governments and societies and understood them and the nature of civilization well.
It is a lesson in both governance and Man to read their words.
Of course their help in this matter is limited as they left such matters to the states.
::sigh:: Another little belligerent discovers The Big Lie.
230 years of people fighting and dying to protect this distinction say you're wrong. The actual words of the Founders say you're wrong. The Constitution itself says you're wrong. Common sense says you're wrong. And - you know you're wrong.
You just think shamelessly lying is clever.
It's not. It's just shameless lying.
Yeah, that ‘change’ I’ve seen. Not in Man but in what he ‘believes’: in what he is taught and told.
And it IS amazing.
LOL! Good night.
Which words? You mean the words they use when they reject all former systems of governments by analyzing the destruction they imposed on their societies? You mean the words they used when they started with "We the People" and created a new government based on exactly the principles I quoted, and which you have deemed childish? Those words?
Of course their help in this matter is limited as they left such matters to the states.
And what does it mean to "leave those matters to the States"? Didn't you leave out a part of that phrase? As in, the States or the People? And doesn't that refer to the limited government DERIVED from We the People? And how is that an unhelpful limitation by the Founders? Because they left things to the States and the People? Because they put the People over the government? Is that what you call unhelpful? SO you find the very structure of the Constitution unhelpful?
You know, I think you do. I think that is exactly how you feel about the Constitution - that it is unhelpful. But then again, I think the Founders wrote it specifically to be unhelpful to people like you. I think that's exactly what they had in mind when they wrote it - thank God.
Yes.
And if people who participate at a conservative website such as this not understand such basics, where does that leave us?
bump
That won’t make it right, like I said.
Destroying civilization is not the answer.
Definitions, please. Socialists are obvious. Libertarians cross a wide range of government empowerment. Liberals feel that people who uphold gun rights are libertarians, wild-eyed anti-government types. Leftists feel that the Founders themselves created a far too libertarian Constitution, that limited the government way too much for it to be "effective." If you doubt me, just ask our president on this one.
If you're going to have enemies, it's best to be very clear on who they are.
The people who founded this nation did not support polygamy and gay marriage, even if someone started a church supporting it.
You are pretending that America was founded without marriage law, that isn’t true.
You need to find a new tact to promote gay marriage and polygamy.
“Unless homosexual marriage is miraculously abolished in the next few months polygamy will be legal by 2018. You heard it here first.”
Certainly didn’t hear it here now first.
What you are saying is obvious and has been known for decades ever since the same sex marriage issue came up.
What’s funny is that arguments that same sex marriage would logically lead to polygamous marriages was scoffed at by same sex marriage proponents.
The two wrongs don’t make a right adage fits perfectly to this case.
Should they have been forced to recognize polygamy, should any American state or court have been recognizing gay marriage and polygamy because some churches or religions approved of it?
You're playing word games. In 1780, 1794 and 1798, marriage was not performed by the government. There was no "civil" marriage. ALL marriage came out of the churches. So the answer to your question is that the only known marriage of the time that the federal government was refering to had nothing whatsoever to do with the government's definition - it had to do with the religious definitions, and the churches marriages. "Defining" marriage even as man and women did not exist in the federal law! It just referenced those joined in marriage by the church.
As well, these federal laws did not adress marriage as marriage anyway - as you well know. They had to do with federal pensions for the wives of soldiers killed in the Revolutionary War.
You see, back in the 1700's the federal government did not have the power to reach into personal lives, except - and only to the extent of - the lives of federal employees, and only involving their work, not their private lives.
That's still the truth of federal law. It's just not followed anymore.
Our civilization was formed and advanced around tribal societies where there was no monogamy. Monogamy is a much more recent custom. You may not like it but that is the truth.
I value my freedom as provided to me by the constitution which also includes my freedom from those who want to impose their religious beliefs on me. It makes no difference if their faith is islam or christian our constitution prevents that from happening. My rights I will fight for.
You see our country being great because of christanity. I see our country as having grown into a great nation because of freedom and hard work. Our nation had to overcome the puritan nature of the colonists before they could prosper and become a world power. Think industrial revolution and what society was like during that time. Science and industry led the way through the late teens, roaring 20's, and through the end of the second world war. Prohibition was rescinded, energy exploration was massive, industrial growth in a huge growth spurt, women entered the work force in massive numbers and our nation won a great war. At every turn at every step forward in this procession of national growth the religious right predicted it would cause the fall of our nation.
It didn't happen then and has not happen in the thousands of the same type of predictions since then.
There has not been a world power theocracy on this earth in the last few hundred years. There will not be any led by any man or men in the future.
Complete rubbish.
Matthew 19:4 - And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so..."
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