Posted on 07/06/2013 7:37:16 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
A Conversation with Thomas Fleming, historian and author of A Disease in the Public Mind: A New Understanding of Why We Fought the Civil War.
Thomas Fleming is known for his provocative, politically incorrect, and very accessible histories that challenge many of the clichés of current American history books. Fleming is a revisionist in the best conservative sense of the word. His challenges to accepted wisdom are not with an agenda, but with a relentless hunger for the truth and a passion to present the past as it really was, along with capturing the attitudes and culture of the times.
In The New Dealers’ War Fleming exposed how the radical Left in FDR’s administration almost crippled the war effort with their utopian socialist experimentation, and how Harry Truman led reform efforts in the Senate that kept production in key materials from collapse.
In The Illusion of Victory, Fleming showed that while liberal academics may rate Woodrow Wilson highly, that he may have been the most spectacularly failed President in history. 100,000 American lives were sacrificed to favor one colonial monarchy over another, all so Wilson could have a seat at the peace table and negotiate The League of Nations. Instead, the result of WWI was Nazism and Communism killing millions for the rest of the century.....
(Excerpt) Read more at pjmedia.com ...
I see. So what you are saying then is that any ligation he created during his time as provisional leader of the Confederacy which began in February 1861 when he was inaugurated to said position until he assumed the office of full Presidency in February of 1862 did not have any legal authority since as you say he had no treaty-making power.
This invalidates any legitimacy to the commission he sent to negotiate with the North in February of 1861, the original source in which you mistakenly made the claim that Lincoln met Davis, which you would have to agree now seems pretty far afield.
So the question now should be, if he had no legal authority to broker a deal with the North when he was the provisional President of the Confederacy, why did he even send a ligation to attempt it, and what reason would any sovereign government have to give this illegitimate commission the time of day.
“This invalidates any legitimacy to the commission he sent to negotiate with the North in February of 1861”
The commission was sent in February of ‘62.
I never said I didn’t see the difference between the North and the South. Today or back then. I did say that I was not raised in either society. I have taken no position for either side on this if you read my posts. There are specifics details that I find interesting that I am exploring. It happens that my particular interest on this thread is following the authority of Jefferson Davis and a commission he sent. That’s about it.
We are going around in a circle.
I went by the source. I wasn’t there. Neither were you.
But you claimed that “As I said, it was faithless negotiation by ‘62” in your #166
We’re getting dizzy from all your goofy spin.
Not according to William J. Cooper who is the source of this claim. What source are you drawing from?
Wake up. You can take sides.
It was, on Lincoln’s part. You are discussing two different things.
Does Cooper state the date the commission arrived?
You know - that’s pretty much what swattie babbled at me six years ago. I had no desire to “take sides” but was interested in history. You Lost Cause Losers forced me to take sides and I’ve never looked back.
So you’re right cva - sometimes one needs to take sides. And ya know? It feels good to be on the winning side ;-)
So you honestly are saying that 10 months after launching his war against the U.S., Davis sent a delegation to pay for property the South stole?
I also don’t have to. That’s not what I’m interested in on this thread.
I was referring to the claim that Lincoln offered to repay the South for slaves back in ‘62, as ‘faithless negotiations’, given that it was issued in ‘62 well after the war had already started.
Here’s an idea. Go read it. Isn’t that what you told me to do. It’s on Google Books. I’m sure you can find it. Let me know if you really struggle with it and I’ll even one up you be sending you a link to the pages in question.
So my point stands then. Thank you. :)
Your point stands because you refuse to go do any research. Lol. That’s pretty funny and really shows the weakness of your argument.
Tell you what. I’ll hold your hand for you since you lack the capacity to do it yourself. Book: Jefferson Davis, American. Author: William J. Cooper. Pages: 361-362. If you have any difficulties from here let me know and I will read it to you.
Now. I have given you my source. Your turn. What source are you using that states that this commission was sent in February 1862?
My point stands because you are unable to refute it when asked a simple question.
“What date does Cooper state that the delegation arrived in DC to negotiate”?
You clearly have a date, so I am asking - since you’ve not posted it in the thread, what date does he give?
“I have given you my source.”
You have not - provided an actual citation that supports your claim.
You complained earlier when an actual citation was provided showing that there was a negotiation provided because you were too lazy to read through the thread and find the source + citation provided.
Now you’re upset because you were shown to be wrong. :)
So, either cite or be done with it.
Davis's letter to Lincoln outlining his ultimatum is dated February 27, 1861. In his book, Cooper says that the delegation arrived in D.C. after Lincoln took office which would make in on or after March 4, 1861. Almost a year before you say that they arrived.
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