Posted on 03/27/2013 1:11:54 PM PDT by Maelstorm
Justice Sonia Sotomayor was questioning former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson, a pro-gay marriage Republican. She brought up a very interesting question during the exchange: If gay marriage is legal, what about polygamy?
Sotomayor asked, "If you say that marriage is a fundamental right, what state restrictions could ever exist?" before referencing "polygamy and incest among adults," as reported by Matt Canham of the Salt Lake Tribune. The argument is an illustration of a broader issue about the culture of American society. To agree that gay marriage is indeed protected by the "equal protection" clause in the Constitution, wouldn't the same apply for all consenting adult relationships?
Justice Sonia Sotomayor's thought-provoking question was echoed by Bishop Harry Jackson, a minister at Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, Md. He believes that "the real issue is the religious liberty issue and the issue of whether we can practice marriage as we believe it on an ongoing basis," and further stated that if same-sex marriage "is allowed to be mandated by fiat...then, right behind it, polygamy and many other forms of marriage will automatically sweep the land within just a matter of a few years." Advocates of legalizing gay marriage, as opposed to offering a compromise of "civil unions," which they argue is no different than "separate but equal" should consider this question.
Recently, President Obama's "Organizing for Action" tweeted a quote from the president, whose position on this has "evolved" in a big way from 2008, when he stated, "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage." The tweet quoted the President as saying: "Every single American deserves to be treated equally in the eyes of the law," followed by the hashtag #MarriageEquality. If this is true, than America should do away with programs like affirmative action, which do not treat everyone "equally". Additionally, if this is true, than loving polygamous families should be allowed to get married.
“The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church, is not supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seems always to have been more males than females in the Church.’”
Makes sense, since adopting polygamy would tend to attract more men to a church than women.
Kinda reflects Emma's feelings...
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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SECTION 132
51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
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Crow, Cherokee, Shoshone, Blackfoot, and others Western tribes that populated the plains and Rockies. The Western tribes were constantly on the move and always fighting each other over territory. However, as you stated, child molestation was greatly frowned upon, but only among their own. The captives were fare game for anything.
As a rule the Eastern tribes were more civilized, probably because they had actual settlements they cultivated for years. However, there are plenty of reports of settlers attacked where the adult men were killed while the women and children were captured. Upon being rescued, the stories were horrifying. Women passed around like whores, even girls as young as 9 and 10. The boys were seldom rescued, because the reports from the women was they were sodomized and then killed.
We here of stories where the females were used as sex slave for a time, and then sold to the highest bidder as their 2nd or third wife. When they got pregnant the children were usually taken away after birth and given to a Indian woman to raise.
As for homosexuality, it was not spoken of positively or negatively because it was thought to be just another normal desire that not all men practiced. No different then if one man like apples while another like oranges. You give way too much credit for the morals of the Indian nations.
In almost all Indian nations, girls were taken as brides as young as 10 years old. Like the rest of the world, when a woman lost her husband in war she became the wife of another. If she had a daughter, she was often times traded to another that had something good to trade.
In modern day America we have this ignorant idea that the Indians were so majestic and respectable of others and the land. Out of necessity they would use all of the animals they killed, but the land they used until it was so depleted they were forced to leave. Remember, we are talking about a people who never even had the intelligence to invent a wheel. They did not even use horses until European s introduced them to the continent.
Accounts of trappers that dealt with Indians had some good things to say about some Indian tribes, but as a rule the accounts were much less glowing than what Hollywood and the left would like you to believe. My family ancestors were settlers in the West, and many ended up homesteading in Montana. My Grand mother used to have a couple of journals that was passed down from generation to generation. I remembering reading accounts that would make your toe nails curl.
Unfortunately the last one to have the book left it with her son on Cody Wyoming, and he was a drunk. She left her things with him to go take care of my Grandparents in their last years. When she was in Montana, he got evicted and left everything.
The landlord tossed everything, even the journals that covered over 150 year of family history. It ended up in the local dump, thanks to him and his selfish desire to enjoy life. We used to have accounts of my family going back to before the Civil War when I had ancestors who owned slaves in Virginia, before a great, great, great, Uncle took his family west after the war destroyed their family estate and their free labor was set free. Not a pretty history, but an American history just the same.
I had ancestors who were farmers, prospectors, Scouts, trappers, and others who shared their stories with whoever would listen. I read numerous accounts of dealings with Indians and how they lived. I read how a trapper told a story of how the Indian encampments he frequented for trading purposes smelled so bad you could smell them for miles. They defecated way too close to living quarters, and they stripped the trees of bark so that most trees died off or were eventually cut down for fire. Besides having to travel to follow their main food supply the buffalo’s they also broke camp often to find a newer area that was not so filthy.
As for the Rome, it lasted longer than any other society in the history of the world. From the time it became a Republic and on through to the death of its final Emperor Justinianin in 526 Rome lasted over a 1000 years. Heck its best years were after Nero castrated his lover.
Just because a society is evil does not mean it will fall apart quickly. All is completed in God’s time, not ours. As I said throughout history, from before the flood men have been perverse in their sexual desires, and when the rulers are perverse they inevitably lead the people to be perverse.
Be prepared for America to enter a time of perversion that we could never have imagined. Think of San Francisco type communities all across the country where Independent Day parades are chock full of homosexual and lesbianism type floats and antics that is common place in SF.
Americas fall has been happening for some time, but ht e next stage of our fall will be so great that you and I will not want to even admit we are Americans any longer. The Roman Empire lasted a long time, and the perverse ways of its people began when it was still a city state.
Do not fool yourself to believe that men who do not know God are pure and decent, they are not. Without the light, darkness is very dark. God allowed Rome to last because He had a plan, but His future plans do not include America, so our fall will be quick and quite complete.
Study those God used throughout history, and you will see that the perverse societies God used for His purpose lasted, but once good societies that he had no use for in His grand scheme of things which fell into perversion he quickly allowed to be reduced to nothing but a proverb.
I wrote way more than I had planned, but I will close by adding;
Mankind’s history is an evil one that has very few bright spots. Those moments when we can smile about, all correlate with a time when men walked with God. Unfortunately those moments are few and far between. I speak of mankind in general of course, because there has always been men like Job, Abraham, and others who walked with God.
I find it amazing how we like to look fondly upon ancient civilizations that were farthest from God in the way that elevates them above those who walked with God. For the last 60 years we have been at the mercy of those who control the printing press. Thanks to the internet, now we have the chance to correct history and tell the truth.
Ginsberg advocates an age of consent of 12. really.
The ones between the Eastern Sea and the RM's???
Marry three orphan sisters!
Out of one problem into triple trouble.
Who would have thought that an Obama drone would question on the right side of this issue and Ted Olson would represent the wrong side?
However, what some of the Plains and Rocky Mountain tribes did to their captives is so horrific that not even our modern counterparts have plumbed to that level of depravity, yet. However, the object was torture, not sexual gratification.
In many ways, this depravity sowed the seeds of their own demise. The Tonkawa, for instance, were key to ending more than two centuries of little challenged rule of the Comanche. They had little love for the white man, but saw alliance with them as the only way to survive their own destruction by the Comanche.
In the same way, Pawnee scouts played a similar role in the conquest of the Sioux and their allies. I always felt sorry for the Pawnee and Mandan, two of the rare agricultural tribe of the Plains.
The Mandans, close cousins to the Sioux (both originated in the Ohio River Valley), were extraordinarily kind and hospitable to explorers ranging from LaVerandre to our own Lewis and Clark. So many died from a smallpox epidemic in the late 1830s and more at the hands of the Sioux afterward.
The Pawnee had the misfortune of being the buffer between the Sioux to the north, their aggressive allies to the west and the Comanche to the south. The numbered about 12,000 when the 19th century opened and less than 800 when they finally petitioned the government to relocate them from their Nebraska homeland to Oklahoma in the late 1880s. Most of the dramatic reduction in their numbers was due to warfare with the Sioux and their allies than white man's diseases, the mirror opposite of the Mandan.
Very sad about your family journals. That is why I'm a strong advocate that anyone in possession of such scan them on to CDs and distribute the contents far and wide to as many family members as possible. Then, they should donate the originals to a trustworthy and stable historical society, something not always easy to find.
Anyway, I agree with you about the Hollywood and PC notions of the noble savage. I had an argument on another thread with a guy who claimed scalping was taught to the red man by the white man. He had some good arguments, but given the depravity which the red man exhibited against his fellow humans long before the white man arrived, I don't think it is possible to make such a definite statement.
Unarguably, just as the French practice of paying for scalps, increased scalping, so the Texan and American practice of paying ransom to liberate captives increased the incidence of taking and trading captives.
I want a divorce from my computer & internet.
That’s an interesting question, because polygamy has been part of human tradition for as long as historical records exist, whereas gay sex and incest have been taboo for about as long a period of time.
Unarguably, just as the French practice of paying for scalps, increased scalping, so the Texan and American practice of paying ransom to liberate captives increased the incidence of taking and trading captives.I agree. Rewarding evil will always promote more of the same behavior, but liberals will never learn that evil shrinks when confronted with force.
You need to check your facts.
There’s a long history of same-sex marriage. For instance: two men Pedro Díaz and Muño Vandilaz were married in the Galician municipality of Rairiz de Veiga in Spain on 16 April 1061.
The wise witch of the Hispanic Klan (la Raza) has great credibility among other Klan members, but not so much with American citizens.
Ah correction; the ultimate goal is homosexual pedophilia. It is their civil right to access other people’s kids.
You are exactly right. Having more than one wife is not unusual in many cultures and compared to homos and the genitally mutilated, it seems rather tame.
She’s doing exactly as she’s told. She’s introducing legalizing beastiality, polygamy, incest, etc into the ruling.
The argument should be that marriage a religious issue. The Supreme Court should be debating legal issues.
If you think about it, there has always been sinful conduct among mankind. Nobody approved of stealing, yet some people still stole. Up to a few decades ago (in ALL of the history of humans) sexual relations outside of marriage was looked down on, yet now nearly no one even bats an eyelash about sex between unmarried men and women. Its on TV, in the movies, with celebrities, teenagers and younger. It's almost considered abnormal not to have slept with someone before you married him/her.
All the thousands of years of human civilization and the morality that has bound us together and allowed the bedrock of society - the family - to thrive and the entire world to grow and prosper is being challenged right now. Just fifty years ago, illicit sex was taboo and even criminal in some states. Sure people still engaged in illicit sex and adultery went on, but it was kept secret because of society's disapproval. Usually, if a woman "got pregnant", the couple quickly married and hoped people weren't counting the months. Divorce was considered shameful and families caught in divorce were often stigmatized. Officers in the military could be dishonorably discharged for adultery. Homosexuals have existed from the start of human history, but their activity was not accepted as normal and it was discouraged by most people. Penalties existed for known homosexuals and most states had anti-sodomy laws. Fifty years ago abortion was illegal and back-alley abortionists were the only option women had.
In a mere fifty years, after THOUSANDS of years of recorded history, we find that not only is sexual activity outside of a marriage between a man and a woman accepted it is celebrated. The Sexual Revolution planted a crop and we are seeing the reaping of that seed. Anyone who wants to can have sex - unmarried men with women, men with men, women with women, men with multiple women, etc.. Teens are in on it and kids younger and younger are joining in. Unfettered sex brings with it rampant disease, abortions, divorces, alienation from families and from God, our Creator. What started out as the wind of "free sex" and "free love" has reaped the whirlwind of the destruction of civilized society.
America would only work if a moral and religious people occupied it. John Quincey Adams said, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." I fear I will live to see the destruction of my country by the judgment of the holy and righteous God. It's like trying to stop a tidal wave with a sand castle, but I plan to fight on and not compromise. The slippery slope of so-called free love has found us near the bottom of a deep abyss. It may be too late to halt the final slide. May the Lord still find us faithful when He comes.
Let's say gay marriage was legalized and, what inevitably could happen, polygamy was also allowed, do you think the LDS church would return to the once "divinely-revealed" practice of polygamy? Just curious.
My HP laptop we bought in 2003 just bit the dust. I divorced it and remarried a new HP Compaq PC with a 22" monitor! Woo hoo..I'm cookin' with gas now. I have a direct connection to the Internet (still kinda, sorta in like with it still) and get 1.0 GBPS - response time is amazing! I guess I could truthfully say I was widowed by my computer and so, technically, I didn't divorce it. It still works, though I did have to reboot it from the original disk and lost everything I had spent years building that wasn't backed up to a Seagate drive (Favorites file hurt the most!).
If I could play one—and played it regularly—I'd love it to look rough 'round the edges.
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