We're now one step closer to America's coming civil war

Fox News ^ | 01-03-013 | Arthur Herman

[HogsBreath]

The New Year has started with a monstrosity of a budget deal, one that proves that neither political party, Democrats or Republicans, is really serious about controlling the growth of big government. But soap opera dramatics about fiscal "cliffs" and sequestration shouldn’t deflect from where President Obama is really taking this country. Consider this story from the Wall Street Journal a few days before Christmas:

[central_va]

This will be Kosovo, with neighbor killing neighbor, and a trip to the store will be an expedition into a kill zone and back. This will make your typical frame home with drywall into a death trap until you line the inside with sandbags.

I doubt that if Texas secedes there will be mini kosovos in Austin and San Antonio. Just don't see it. I do see the potential mass migration of welfare types to places North and east.

THere will be secessions WITHOUT Civil War. That is my prediction.

[central_va]

"Chaos" is not what happened in 1860 and 1861. Instead there was an orderly process (unlawful, imho, but generally peaceful) to vote on secession and joining the new Confederacy. The Confederacy then decided to start and formally declare war on the United States, forcing military officers to chose sides. During that war, both sides did occasionally "act against the populace" of the other side, but where circa 600,000 soldiers died, the number of civilians killed by soldiers was a mere handful, and nearly always accidental.

Take out the part in parens and we are in total agreement.

[BroJoeK]

;-)

[MrB]

Any seceding states must make it abundantly clear and set in stone that the power of the state shall NOT be used for charity, or, more to the point, carrying dead weight.
This is absolutely necessary in order to keep the new free states from wandering down the path to where we are now.

[central_va]

The federal govt is not allow to make a direct payment to an individual citizen unless it is for a good or service provided to the Federal Govt or military.

[Bryanw92]

>>I doubt that if Texas secedes there will be mini kosovos in Austin and San Antonio. Just don’t see it. I do see the potential mass migration of welfare types to places North and east.

>>THere will be secessions WITHOUT Civil War. That is my prediction.

I wasn’t talking about Texas. I was talking about the dysfunctional United States of America as a whole, a nation where our primary business is now scamming people out of money. Our government defines prosperity as “giving away borrowed and conjured dollars to people who don’t work”. If anything happens to disrupt the flow of money to the useless eaters, they will do something stupid and they will find out what 15% vs 70% looks like in a war. Then, the feds will step in to crush us all under the boot in the name of “restoring order”.

But, there won’t be secessions. The federal empire won’t permit it. They can’t afford to lose productive states because the northeast and left coast welfare states cannot survive without the flyover states. Even if an insignificant state tried it, they’d stop it dead in its tracks because, if they let one go, the next might be Texas or Alaska.

[central_va]

How many troops do you think it will take to occupy the entire state of Texas? And know the standing Army and Marines corp amounts to about 700,000(without defections)

[Osage Orange]

Would you be so kind to define ultra-rich?

Thanks!

[demshateGod]

Warren Buffet, Al Gore. Crony capitalists who get rich of regulations.

[Bryanw92]

>>How many troops do you think it will take to occupy the entire state of Texas? And know the standing Army and Marines corp amounts to about 700,000(without defections)

Not as many as you think. Many people are sheep. As we learned in WW2, they will march up to a rail car to take them to a camp, then stand in line to be murdered. A handful of guards with machine guns can pacify a large group of people because no one wants to be the 5% who dies when the guards open fire. Most people are waiting for a hero.

Many other people will fight for the other side. The minorities can be used against the whites. The police will obey orders to keep their gun and badge and paycheck. The huge number of federal police will suddenly find themselves consolidated into one force. The gay-friendly military will have no problem with shooting the breeders.

The tiny percentage of the population who are heroes will either die fast, or be ratted out by their sheeple neighbors.

Small towns will last the longest because the gov will use an “island-hopping” strategy to bypass and isolate them. No need to pacify them because they are insignificant.

The cities will require occupying troops and the gov has more than enough to pacify a population that lives on its cell phone and has no means of producing food.

Bottom line: we have 99 Quislings in this country for each John Wayne. The gov will not march in as the nazis did in Paris. They’ll appeal to the “reasonable” people to help them “preserve order”. By the time the troops start standing on street corners demanding your papers, most of the fighters, revolutionaries, and malcontents will be identified and removed from the general population.

[central_va]

You have to divide by three. At any given moment during an occupancy one soldier is on patrol, one solder is sleeping and one soldier is training doing maintenance etc. So 700,000 quickly becomes 220,000 thousand. That is not enough to occupy one city let alone and entire country like the republic of Texas. But go ahead believe your anarchist BS.

[Bryanw92]

>> But go ahead believe your anarchist BS. <> Believe what you want. You and the other Freepers who believe in the "Short, Victorious Civil War" are living in a fool's paradise. Enjoy the scenery! Just ask yourself one question: if you are in a crowd of 100 people and there is one soldier with a 30 round magazine in his rifle in front of you, are YOU going to be the one to charge him and try to take his rifle? (There's no time to whip up the mob. You just have to act NOW. Maybe they'll follow you. Maybe they won't.)

[central_va]

Ok we can’t subdue Afghanistan but Texas, piece of cake. You are the fool. Do you know that Texas has more armed citizens than the Army Marines combined.

[Bryanw92]

>>Ok we can’t subdue Afghanistan but Texas, piece of cake. You are the fool. Do you know that Texas has more armed citizens than the Army Marines combined.

In your ignorance, you hit the nail on the head.

In Afghanistan, you have a population who is willing to die.

In Texas, you do not. There are some, but the amount is statistically insignificant.

I note that you failed to answer my question. Are YOU willing to die for 99 strangers who are afraid to act when you don’t know that your death will matter? Those Afghanis know the answer. They do it. You can’t pacify a population that isn’t afraid to throw their individual lives away.

[central_va]

In Afghanistan, you have a population who is willing to die. In Texas, you do not.

You know nothing.

[Bryanw92]

>>You know nothing.

You’re probably right.

[rockrr]

“In other news secessionists in Texas have announced that, due to scheduling conflicts, they have postponed their secession until after football season.”

;’)

[BroJoeK]

contral_va: "THere will be secessions WITHOUT Civil War. That is my prediction. "

Off the top of my head I can think of five different methods for states to secede constitutionally, lawfully and peacefully.
No need for violence, but huge needs for patience and unending perseverance:

1. Representatives from states wishing to secede can routinely submit bills in Congress authorizing their secession.
   After some reasonable period of non-action by Congress, they can announce they will refuse to vote for any future bills until theirs are acted on.

2. Attorney Generals from states wishing to secede can bring suits to the Supreme Court charging Federal breach of contract of the US Constitution, and requesting secession as the appropriate remedy.

3. States themselves can call for a Constitutional Convention to write amendments authorizing their secession.

4. Candidates for President and other high offices can announce they are running to authorize lawful secession.
   If successful, they can sign any such bills passed by Congress.

5. Voters of states wishing to secede can pass referendums authorizing their state governments to seek progressive states of secession (phase 1, phase 2, etc.) leading to complete and final secession by a certain date, say ten or twenty years in the future.

A sixth method would include all of the above, and would have the advantage of keeping the issue alive on many different fronts at the same time.

All of these methods would require firm commitments and perseverance from overwhelming majorities of state voters and their state government officials, for the years and years of time it would take to peacefully, lawfully secede.

But in an age when half of voters receive government help of some form, the likelihood of success for these efforts seems, well, remote.
On the other hand, even the attempt could possibly be politically therapeutic, reminding Big Government that it exists only through the consent of its states' voters.

And in the mean time, while the USA consumes itself politically debating secession, we must be prepared for our foreign enemies to grow bolder, our military to grow weaker, the world to grow more dangerous, our economies to decline and chaos to break out unpredictably, anywhere.

But, all that considered, sure it could be done...