Posted on 12/31/2012 3:28:15 PM PST by ProudFossil
Capitol Report | New Mexico » New Mexico tops Forbes list of “death spiral states” found at http://www.capitolreportnewmexico.com/2012/11/nm-tops-forbes-list-of-death-spiral-states/
This report has started a discussion on a local TV channel's comment forum. I am posting a comment from a liberal and a reply to him. The report shows there are 153 state and local employees, retirees, and welfare individuals for every 100 who are working in the private sector in New Mexico.
The reply:
How does it work that more government employees than private sector workers are good for a capitalistic economy? Please don’t say we need more teachers, firemen and cops. We don’t! My oldest son who has two degrees needs a PRIVATE SECTOR job and not more education.
Exactly.
We need jobs in America.
Not in China. Not in Europe. Not in South America, or Africa.
In America.
Santa always wins. Santa doesn’t always bring presents though!
Then we need to start making it a point to buy products made in America, not China, Europe, or anywhere else. We need to make it profitable for companies to make stuff here by buying from those who do if we want our jobs back.
But at the same time, I won't blame anyone for refusing to buy a car made by workers who choose to be represented by a union like this. Saving American jobs does not mean allowing them to hold our economy hostage.
The host can only support so many parasites before dying.
The leftist parasites don’t seem to be able to comprehend that basic fact. Logic is not a strong suit among leftists; they emote, not think.
Retirees do not belong on that list.
Retirees using medicare and social security. Sure they do.
You are wrong. In most states the politicians have spent the retirement funds set aside for the retirees. They are now paying the retirees from current tax revenues. THERE IS NO LOCKBOX AND NEVER WAS!!! In some states, i.e., California, it is forcing the local entity into bankruptcy because they squandered the money set aside for the retirees.
The retirees using medicare and social security may not belong on the list. The list is strictly about STATE AND LOCAL retirees. It does not include federal entitlements. My wife is a retired school teacher. She is on the list. I am on Social Security. I am not on this list. If we start including the federal takers the ratio of takers to makers becomes even worse.
What about people who saved and invested for their retirement? They earned that money. It’s their money — whether they spend it as soon as they earn it, or wait a few years or decades before spending it.
You have missed the point of the article. Those who saved their money, invested it, and are living on that as retirees are not on the list. The list includes retirees of state and local governments who are getting their retirement from the state or local government who are having to pay it from current revenues. They are takers to the system and not makers. Those who have retired on their own means are more makers because they are returning some of their money back into the system. The state and local retirees are takers because they are taking money from the makers for their retirement. It is not their fault because the politicians have wasted the money they did put into the system.
It wasn't presented to them as an illegal Ponzi scheme, when the Feds first began confiscating taxes from their earned incomes, but that's really what it was.(and is)
There was no separate account for the working persons SSAN tax money, so their duly elected officials spent it. Every cent of it.
And “they” let them do it.
And “they” will now be robbed again.SCOTUS has already ruled the Feds can make any changes they want too with SSAN monies. Payments can go up, as it has for years, or they can be cut, and they will be, soon.
It's ugly, unfair and totally despicable, but it's what IS going to happen.
When the takers number greater than 90%, somebody’s going to be forced to work.
It won’t be slavery cuz they won’t be black.
The average taxpayer has no clue how their taxdollars are actually spent. Case in point: A couple that lives not far from me has four children age 3,7,9 and 13. After numerous stays in jail for drug abuse, several taxpayer funded re-re-rehabs and taxpayer funded medication and mental health services; the father was sent to prison for burlary. He now resides in a minimum security prison where he is fed, clothed, entertained and kept healthy with taxpayer dollars. Meanwhile, the mother an her four children receive a monthly check, free healthcare, food stamps and government subsidized housing. (Free daycare too but Mom isn’t required to work to use it.) They don’t wear shabby clothes, eat cheap food or do without movies and electronic devices. They somehow manage to have the very best; many things I can’t afford for my own grandchildren and neither can my daughter and son-in-law who works long hours to provide for his family with no monetary help and he pays lots of taxes.
Every year at tax time, this mother receives several thousand dollars because of the children. The money is used for vacations, designer clothing and a down payment on a late model vehicle which is driven for several months before it’s repossessed. No worries. Transportation to medical appointments and necessary business is provided by the State.
The then twelve-year-old daughter was put on free birth control last summer. It must have been too complicated to use because she is now five months pregnant. Her Mother has refused tubal ligation and her fifth child will most likely arrive sometime after the imprisoned father is allowed conjugal visits. This family is happy, healthy and perfectly satisfied with their lives. If they have any idea where their livelihood comes from they don’t seem to care. The mother’s brother, who lives with them, is an alcoholic and lost his job over two years ago. He has continued to drink and dry out on unemployment and went seamlessly it appears from unemployment to public assistance. If this mother wasn’t very forthcoming and talkative about where their things come from, I might think they were middle income or had a generous trust fund.
You can flame me and call me unfeeling all you want. This Welfare State is wrong. I do feel immense sorrow for these people in their millions when there is no more money to provide for them. At the rate their numbers are increasing, that won’t be long. At least, when and if the collapse occurs, my family knows how to survive. We know how. They don’t.
Nope. That is not going to happen. Instead, an insidious and crushing tax will be imposed on everyone; rich and poor. It will actually affect the poor the most, even those who don't work, although it will also disproportionately penalize those who have saved and invested. The tax will be invisible, and it will allow politicians to continue to claim that "not one penny of anyone's Social Security has been cut."
The tax is called debt monetization. Get ready for Russia in the late 1980's.
Let’s all agree not to dump on the retirees, please. You will be there someday yourself.
Look, I get weary of trying to explain to self-styled “conservatives” what the brutal truth of our financial situation is when I hear this “let’s not bash retirees.”
The fact is that Flemming v. Nestor was decided in 1960. That is to say, the US Supreme Court informed voters that Social Security was not a pension, that people who put money into SS were owed nothing, had NO property right in their “contributions” etc - in 1960.
Anyone after 1960 who believed that because they put something into Social Security they were OWED something back out of it... well, all I can say is that they didn’t spend enough time learning how their government actually worked.
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