Posted on 10/22/2012 9:09:50 AM PDT by Jayster
"There' a rising tide of acceptance of the fact that people are going to smoke marijuana, and it's like the prohibition against alcohol in the 1930s. There's a recognition that perhaps the laws are causing more harm than the drugs themselves," says Rick Steves, author and travel host.
Steves and others attended "The Final Days of Prohibition" conference in downtown Los Angeles in early October. The conference was put on by the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), and Reason TV was on the scene to ask about the future of marijuana laws in the U.S., particularly in the upcoming election where the states of Oregon, Washington, and Colorado all have marijuana legalization initiatives on the ballot.
About 3 minutes.
Produced by Paul Feine and Zach Weissmueller. Edited by Weissmueller.
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(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...
For whatever its worth I’m esentially for decriminalizing it or at least making it a class c? misdermeanor in most cases.
Except when it comes to minors.
In which case I would make it a serious crime to give MJ to a minor.
As well as transporting large ammounts would lead to jail time and heavy fines.
Otherwise, if you get caught with more than a 1/4-1 ounce you pay a fine and or do community time.
Never heard of him/she/it!
Several states have already done that - I agree that it's a step in the right direction.
Except when it comes to minors. In which case I would make it a serious crime to give MJ to a minor.
Agreed.
As well as transporting large ammounts would lead to jail time and heavy fines.
That will still leave massive profit opportunities for the criminal world.
(With your screen name, you might be interested in these guys: LEAP.)
bull.
Your simple mind doesn’t realize that we didn’t have anything even closely resembling a “welfare state” that would pick up the butts on the side of the road and feed them and care for their children during the 1700’s through the early 1900’s.
I agree-—laws are WAY too intrusive today-—but as long as taxpayers are paying for all the druggies and their progeny they drop all over the place—then I don’t want it made legal. It leads to irresponsibility and death and confiscation of decent hard-working Americans who pay for their play.
It should not be “PROMOTED” by government, since a “Just society” has to promote public Virtue (All the Founders, Montesquieu, Locke, Plato Aristotle,
etc.) Justice IS a virtue and that is the only reason for government—plus to protect private property. Since druggies are mostly the destroyers of private property and thieves and liars, I think govt. has an interest in discouraging it. Government CAN NOT promote evil. (sodomy and abortion) but as you can see we have a post-constitutional government like Levin states.
People who used drugs illicitly usually were killed and their genetic pool died out. They had very few friends who were decent human beings—people didn’t want to “marry” potheads and degenerates when we were a Christian nation.
Which is it?
That would still leave massive profit opportunites for the criminal world.
Well, to use your tobacco example.
Tobacco is legal and relatively inexpensive.
However,there is still a massive profit opportunity for the criminal world from black market sales of tobacoo.
Legalizing/decriminalizing MJ while it might reduce many crimes related to the illegal sale of MJ it will not solve the crime epidemic.
Even if the government taxed MJ criminals would still sell it across state lines simular to tobacco.
Legalizing It will only create another opening to expoit another vice.
Legalizing alcohol did not completely stop its abuse or the death relating to its abuse.
The criminals that sold illegal hooch moved on to the next profitable vice.
Through it all I doubt they ever stopped selling tobacco across state lines.
Rubbish. Last time cannabis - a known and accepted ingredient in many legal products - was rechristened as "marihuana" by out-of-work ex-Prohibitionists and criminalized with scare stories about crazy Mexicans and white-woman-seducing Negro jazz musicians. (And robbery to pay for drugs is fueled by anti-drug laws keeping prices high.)
Which is it?
Both are true - since drug robbery is much lower when drugs are legal, it's not a motivating factor in making drugs illegal.
That will still leave massive profit opportunities for the criminal world.
Tobacco is legal and relatively inexpensive. However,there is still a massive profit opportunity for the criminal world from black market sales of tobacoo.
Not "massive" - every estimate I've seen makes black-market tobacco profits a fraction of a percent of illegal drug profits.
Legalizing/decriminalizing MJ while it might reduce many crimes related to the illegal sale of MJ it will not solve the crime epidemic.
Keeping the growing and sale of marijuana illegal has fueled the crime epidemic. Utopia cannot be had - legalization is the least bad option.
Even if the government taxed MJ criminals would still sell it across state lines simular to tobacco.
The profits would be slashed - see above.
Legalizing It will only create another opening to expoit another vice.
It's being exploited now - and completely outside any regulatory moderation.
Legalizing alcohol did not completely stop its abuse or the death relating to its abuse.
Nor did criminalizing alcohol. Again, utopia cannot be had.
The criminals that sold illegal hooch moved on to the next profitable vice.
If that vice was as profitable as drugs, criminals would already have been there. It's basic economics that every vice we legalize, thereby ceasing to hyperinflate its profits and restrict them to criminal hands, is a blow to criminal profits.
Now, if he directed all that poison toward Leftists, it might be amusing...
Heh.... Every large family has a crazy old uncle. FR is no different ;-)
(just don't touch his ice cream, and he probably won't bother you ;-)
I’m really sort of at a loss for “Since druggies are mostly the destroyers of private property and thieves and liars” - are we talking about CANNABIS here?
I’ve known many people who have smoked/do smoke pot. I would say that 10-20% of them are the stereotypicial “stoners” that are in their 30s-40s, underachievers, living at home or with other relatives who care for them. The other 80-90% of them are all gainfully employed. One of them is a doctor, another is a vice president of a large telco.
I’m not trying to argue that everyone who smokes pot is going to be a rocket scientist, but what you seem to be doing is to be assuming that every person who smokes pot is a no-goodnik who is going to destroy the fabric of society, and that’s just not the case.
Every person who drinks beer doesn’t go home and drunkenly beat their wife and children. Every person who smokes tobacco doesn’t get lung cancer that has to be treated on the taxpayer dime.
Taxpayers AREN’T paying for all the druggies and their progeny. It’s not something where all the people who smoke pot are on government assistance and all the people that don’t smoke pot are hardworking citizens that are getting taxed to pay for the pot for the rest of society.
“People who used drugs illicitly usually were killed and their genetic pool died out.” ....strange, when you consider that cannabis was the most used drug of the ancient world.
Just sayin.
I am talking about morality and character. Over thousands of years, starting with Sophocles in Western Civilization -—morality and character were tied to Virtue. Virtue is excellence. Now, if you do things to destroy cognitive function or lesson it-—when intelligence is what differentiates us from base animal urges, then it is considered “evil” to do anything which lessons that which makes one truly human—the intellect.
Evil always occurs when people treat their own bodies (Temples of God) with drugs or mutilate their senses which dehumanizes them and reduces them to an animal with no intellect. It has been fully documented since Cain and Abel—the results of immorality and lack of character. Druggies have no character—no will power—no control over their emotional life. Most break ins—are done by drug users. Most thefts are done by drug users. Most evil is done by cocaine users like zero who regards his own body with no respect—we see that with the debasing acts of sodomy-—and his willingness to watch his own ambassador get sodomized on tv which elicits no efforts to save him.
Good and Evil in Western Civ has always been bound by character. We used to realize—before Clinton—that if a person lacks character in their private life-—it will warp and invade ALL aspects of their Worldview which drugging the masses helps to mollify. We see that in all the evil policies of a Hillary and Bill-—all is to destroy the individual and make us all dependent on a totalitarian world government. Their goals have always been obvious-—and the drug using Clinton and his sexcapades shows he treats human beings as objects to be demeaned. He is an example of a drug user and one devoid of sexual morality. Character always matters
Using drugs for the “mind” numbing effect is vacating from actual living and it always harms the bodies by the toxins always in all drugs.
You think People will be better to be on pot? I was in speech class, where this guy who was 20 explained how pot almost destroyed his life-—and he had to go through drug treatment. He explained how it destroys motivation and productivity and makes one “not care” about things happening around him. Aristotle would say that is a wasted life since the contemplative life and the Active Life are the main things which make mankind “happy”. It is using the intellect in its most clear sense. You seem to think being fuzzy minded makes one “more creative” or “better”-—which has been proven a lie. They just believe they are “clever” and “creative”. I have been at pot parties before and I will tell you they are the most stupid, dumb people I have ever been around. It proved all I needed to know about pot smokers—and which is continually proved as I probe their vacant minds. They should be reading Aristotle or Cicero or spending time reading to their children.
Nothing good ever comes from retreating from reality by taking drugs which have their own toxic effect on the body, and the placating, sucking of Will in the Mind.
BTW, Justice is the goal of the Rule of Law. Justice is a Virtue. To have Just Laws (which is the only Constitutional type of law in our Republic) has to promote public Virtue. This has been known and stated by Aristotle, Cicero, Machiavelli, Polybius, Locke, Blackstone, All the Founders, etc. It is the basic principle of Rule of Law and Just Law and our Constitution.
Trying to make illicit drug use a Virtue—won’t work. Sodomy and baby killing are not Virtues, either—even if the unconstitutional laws are trying to force our children to have that worldview. Those activities will always be a Vice.
Justice will not exist in a country which promotes Vice——but that is what the Marxists are trying to do in our public schools and military—to destroy character which always has collapsed cultures (Rome, Weimar Republic). It is why we need to get evil government OUT of the schools so they don’t corrupt and destroy the logic in the next generation of Americans like they have so many generations since Dewey.
You're welcome.
I never claimed I am perfect and I usually have little time to proof read since I seem to be so verbose. Thanks for keeping me on my toes...... I do get sloppy at times. :(
So you want to ban the cognition-lessening drug alcohol? (Or are you a hypocrite?)
Most break ins—are done by drug users. Most thefts are done by drug users.
Do you have evidence for these dubious claims? And have you stopped to consider that drug prohibition, by hyperinflating the cost of drugs, does much to increase break-ins and theft?
I was in speech class, where this guy who was 20 explained how pot almost destroyed his life-—and he had to go through drug treatment. He explained how it destroys motivation and productivity and makes one “not care” about things happening around him. [...] I have been at pot parties before and I will tell you they are the most stupid, dumb people I have ever been around.
And as Ueriah said, he knows pot smokers who don't fit these patterns.
Trying to make illicit drug use a Virtue [...] Justice will not exist in a country which promotes Vice
To refrain from criminalizing an act is not to make it a virtue nor to promote it. It is not against the law to insult one's spouse.
Alcohol can be used as an aid to health. I drank beer for the protein when I nursed my children who went on to graduate with honors from Stanford and Boalt Hall. I can drink with dinner but it never affects my brain power and I have never been “drunk” since once in college when I was drinking vodka. :) I was into vice at that time—anti-God-—vice breeds vice and I was stupid and naive.
There is no known benefits from most drugs like cocaine and pot which actually contain harmful toxins for the body and/or lungs and brain.
So you want to make drugs real cheap so all immature children will be seduced into polluting their bodies and become addicted (just like my classmate) and destroying their brain (studies prove it). That is really wise. When you have a society that can promote Vice to children with the power of the public schools and planned parenthood and perverts being able to seduce children into their godless worldview-—you want to make drugs affordable to them too?
Free Republics have to promote ‘public virtue”-—Founders. Just Law is law which promotes “excellence” and the “Good” (Virtue;Justice is the first cardinal virtue. Without virtue, you can NOT have a CIVIL society. You need masters when you are not in control of your emotions and mind.
Manson’s friends were all on drugs and they didn’t really care about money. Look at the prisons-—most gangs and prostitutes and degenerates are all addicted to drugs. I am not going to google it-—I have for 10 years—and it all comes up the same. Degeneracy breeds degeneracy. Vice breeds Vice. People who do evil things to their own bodies and sodomize others —will demean and dehumanize all people. (the sodomite Hitler comes to mind).
Without Virtue, you can not be Virtuous and Good. The Greek Masters stated (correctly) that ALL Virtues are necessary to be virtuous. In other words if you were not Wise —you could not be Just. If you were not courageous, you would not be able to do the Just thing when courage was needed. If you didn’t have Temperance, you would not be Wise, etc.
It has all been known since Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics. That is why we had the great scientists in Western Civ-—the Wisdom and Virtues—which spawn excellence. Virtue is excellence.
To insult one’s spouse is evil. It is immoral (vice). That is why a Free Republic needs the Judeo-Christian Religion (US government is not supposed to rule people—they rule themselves by pursuing the “Good” —known as Happiness to the Greeks)-—to make people restrain from doing evil by their own internal moral efforts.
Without religious people, there can be no Free Republic, because there can be no Virtue without the Judeo-Christian Religion (Nietzsche). When you kill God—you kill man’s value system. You destroy the concepts Right and Wrong—and chaos will result. It is like playing a BB game with no rules-—can’t happen without an Absolute rules. End up in a fight every time, or anger and an unfinished game. We used to have God Given Rights in this country-—not rights from every tom dick and barney. There is a difference because one leads to injustice (vice) and only God’s Laws lead to Virtue.
An I repeat: For a Free Republic to exist, it is necessary to promote public virtue. (Our unconstitutional public schools are promoting vice and pride in vice—habituating children into a godless, perverted worldview).
Without Virtue, there can be only chaos and tyranny. (all Founders, Machiavelli, Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, Blackstone, etc.)
Do you find virtue in the “living document” revisionism that is the means by which our current federal drug laws are enacted?
There is no such thing as an “evolving” constitution. It is Absolute and Rights come from God-—an Absolute. Revisionism-—only if it is aligned with Natural Laws and God’s Laws make it Just (Virtue). We no longer have a Supreme Law of the Land, which we can recognize. We have Rule of Man—arbitrary laws being made up by any Tom, Dick or Barney. It is all unconstitutional but we have few judges/politicians left to call it what it is and make it “Null and Void”.
As Justice Janice Rogers Brown stated: “Protection of property was a major casualty of the Revolution of 1937. The paradigmatic case, written by that premiere constitutional operative, William O. Douglas, is Williamson v. Lee Optical.”
http://ejournalofpoliticalscience.org/janicerogersbrown.html
We’re facing a constitutional crisis. The federal government no longer recognizes the boundaries between state and national government authority, and the drug war is part and parcel of the problem. The DEA was a willing participant in Fast and Furious. Asset forfeiture laws have militarized the police turned what we used to refer to as “peace officers” into something more aking to bounty hunters. Flowery platitiudes about virtue won’t fix it.
True. I have a son who served in Afghanistan and is a cop. I am well aware of how rogue our so-called government is—how evil Holder is....and evidence of usurpation of power by ALL branches of government. Corruption unlike what we have ever known and forced PC into every institution and destroying logic and reason in schools.
Our so-called press is covering up great corruption and enabling whistleblowers to be destroyed. It has never been this bad and dangerous to speak the truth.
(There are many good people in place-—they have to be quiet right now—or eliminated).
We can start by taking ALL our children, out of the public schools—the indoctrination centers. We have to eliminate their supply of useful idiots that they are pumping out of the school system—like Dr. Samuel Blumenfeld states. We have to save the minds of the future-—educate them in all Classical Thought and that of Adam Smith and John Locke. We need to take back God—and put Him back in our Constitution and treat it as an Absolute document, which it is—
We can do as Justice John Marshall stated—when laws are not in line with the Supreme Law of the Land—they are null and void. Unconstitutional law has to be eliminated-—all laws since Oliver Wendell Holmes has to be reviewed and most junked. Only with “Justice” can we return to Rule of Law. Otherwise it is useless (Cicero). You can not retain control of the masses without Laws that apply equally to everyone. Torte reform is a must, loop holes closed—no two tier class system..for politicians (elites) and constituents.
We have to go BACK to the original document—that is the only way out of this mess—and it means beefing up the natural family (get rid of meaningless marriage contracts) and eliminating the welfare state and enabling churches (get rid of the 501c3)..to take over the charity elements and be more vocal in the community.
Only religions which espouse our ideals in our Constitution will be recognized—no worshipping of Satan, moon gods, where you can promote Vice—hate, sodomy, lying, racism, since our laws come from God in this country and Ten Commandments are the basis of American Jurisprudence—originating from Christian Common Laws. Justice for ALL. No slaves out of the producers.
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