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At least four shot at Sikh Temple, SWAT team helps people out (Oak Creek WI)
Milkwaukee Wisconsin JS Online ^ | August 5, 2012 | Mike Johnson

Posted on 08/05/2012 9:50:55 AM PDT by Pinkbell

Edited on 08/05/2012 10:46:48 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

At least four people were shot just after 10 a.m. Sunday at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, and a police SWAT team entered the building before noon and brought uninjured people out of the building at 7512 S. Howell Ave.

Among those who were shot was the president of the temple.

People were in the temple as early as 6:30 a.m. Sunday and many more were arriving for a service that was to begin about 11:30 a.m.

There were reports that children were taken to the building's basement after shots were fired.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: banglist; domesticterrorism; faithandphilosophy; oakcreek; racine; shooting; sikh; sikhtempleshooting; temple; wademichaelpage; wadepage; wisconsin
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To: Pinkbell

WISN helo reporter says they are hearing that there are still shooters (plural) inside.

61 posted on 08/05/2012 10:36:29 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: risen_feenix

Many people never bother to learn the facts about aanything.

I have discussed the Sikhs with some people at work ,and they insist”towelheads are all the same.

Never undersestimate the power of stupidity and laziness.

62 posted on 08/05/2012 10:37:30 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: Pinkbell

On FOX 6 a man is saying that most people were not there yet. Most usually arrive between 11:30-1pm. Lots of children inside. The shooting started outside.

Reports of at least three shooters, supposedly not members of the temple.

63 posted on 08/05/2012 10:39:52 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: creeping death
if suspect info was available and dispatcher said Negative

Yeah, the more I hear, the more I think this is coordinated attack. Building is starting to be cleared.
64 posted on 08/05/2012 10:40:17 AM PDT by Daus
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To: All

One witness told Newsradio 620 WTMJ’s Dan O’Donnell that at least two, possible four gunmen were hiding inside the temple. Reports of “hostage situation”.

65 posted on 08/05/2012 10:40:52 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: TomGuy
Police Scanner just told dispatch to contact TV stations and tell them to TURN OFF THEIR DAMN LIVE FEEDS of the scene.

Good idea. Why doesn't the media just send the killers a tweet so they know what's going on outside? Geeeez!

66 posted on 08/05/2012 10:41:53 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Paladin2
Everyone I know at my congregation is a gun owner and that includes the preacher. Woe unto the thug who tries to make off with the collection plate. The Second Amendment is the Eleventh Commandment as far as we're concerned. Guns are the guarantor of liberty.

67 posted on 08/05/2012 10:43:00 AM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: concerned about politics

Hostage scenario suggests not your run-of-the-mill whackadoodle going off, doesn’t it? Makes you wonder abt some things...

68 posted on 08/05/2012 10:44:19 AM PDT by Dysart (You didn't post that. Someone else made that happen.)
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To: All

One of the temple’s committee members, Ven Boba Ri, said that based on communication with people inside the temple, the shooter was a white male in his 30s.

“We have no idea,” he said of the motive. “It’s pretty much a hate crime. It’s not an insider.”

According to Ri, the man started shooting after he walked up to a priest who was standing outside, and shot him.

Then he went inside and started shooting.

People inside the temple were using cell phones to call people outside, saying please send help, Ri said.

“It’s sad, I don’t know how to describe it,” said Ri, who has been fielding calls all morning from around the world, including India.

“Sikhism is such a peaceful religion. We have suffered for generations, in India and even here.”

“We’re all the same. Everybody has the same blood,” said temple member Jaswinder Schandock.

Groups of temple members were gathered, on cell phones, conferring in small groups and watching from afar.

Oak Creek police were not giving out any information at this point.

69 posted on 08/05/2012 10:44:24 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: Pinkbell

Police (scanner) apparently are in contact with perp(s) inside. They are wanting food — something like 300 burgers.

Another police vehicle reports gridlock on the immediate roadways.

70 posted on 08/05/2012 10:45:17 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

According to what I’ve heard, police may have shot one of the shooters.

71 posted on 08/05/2012 10:47:01 AM PDT by Pinkbell
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To: Pinkbell

‘Sounds like the Sunnis are up to old tricks.

72 posted on 08/05/2012 10:47:01 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: risen_feenix
Local Fox affiliate reporting SWAT entered and took down 3 shooters. We’ll see if it’s true. Hopefully.

Oh man, I hope so. Who would target these people for gosh sakes? This country is going nuts. We need a new leader.

73 posted on 08/05/2012 10:47:15 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: TomGuy

Well, per an earlier post, hopefully they are still inside and rapidly assuming room temperature.

I took a flight when resumed after 9/11, and there was an older Sikh male waiting to get on the plane. He was festooned with “I love the USA” buttons and I recall feeling sorry for him. I was asked by an airline worker to change seats before boarding, no big deal. I found myself seated next to this guy, who was sandwiched between me and other short haired, large males who were probably also military or law enforcement types.

I told him that I felt bad that not everybody knew the difference between Sikhs and muzzies. He eyeballed me and the other guys around him, and said, “No problem, right now I feel very safe”. Made me laugh.

Hate to hear about this shooting. I hope it does no more damage than it already has.

74 posted on 08/05/2012 10:47:26 AM PDT by M1911A1
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Just saw an upset mother who’s children are locked up in the kitchen. :-(

75 posted on 08/05/2012 10:48:18 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Daus

Perhaps he was the intended target, and the others were killed to help hide the intent.

76 posted on 08/05/2012 10:49:03 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Help. How do I put something in my tagline.)
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To: TomGuy
They are wanting food — something like 300 burgers.

People from India don't eat beef, right?. Don't they consider the cow sacred?

77 posted on 08/05/2012 10:51:25 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: concerned about politics

300 burgers is what the police guy on scanner said.

McDonald’s got the order and replied that it would take about 30 minutes to fulfill the order.

78 posted on 08/05/2012 10:54:53 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: concerned about politics

I know the cow is considered sacred in India, but from what I’ve heard, the shooters are not Indian or even Sikh for that matter.

79 posted on 08/05/2012 10:56:32 AM PDT by Pinkbell
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To: crazydad
The following is an article by a former Indian police officer, who is also a Sikh. A must-read, if you ask me:


Tolerating Islamist intolerance


A great deal has been written on the 'cartoon controversy', but it is far from enough. The current storm of orchestrated violence and intimidatory protests across the world is symbolic of a deep and sustained intolerance among Muslims, and of rising levels of tolerance of Muslim intolerance, that jointly undermine the possibility of freedom in large parts of the world.


Crucially, it is precisely this tolerance of intolerance that has allowed vocal and violent radicalised Islamist minorities to silence Muslim majorities and to transform the global image of Islam into the grotesque parody of the faith that the Danish cartoons sought - perhaps indelicately - to reflect.

Offensive though these cartoons may have been - and they were not offensive to at least some Muslims, who saw in them, not an insult to the Prophet or the faith, but rather a critique of the unrelenting violence that has become the defining character of much of the Muslim world - the criminal incitement and calls to 'butcher/kill/behead those who insult Islam' have only reinforced the images the cartoons reflected, "allowing mass hysteria to define Islam's message".

What dishonours Islam more? A few irreverent cartoons? Or the acts of remorseless murder, of relentless violence against people of other faiths, of the intimidation and abuse of all other faiths and communities, which the Islamists - including states adhering to the Islamist ideology, such as Pakistan - routinely engage in? Why, then, does the Muslim world not rise up in rage against these fanatics and political opportunists who are bringing disgrace and disrepute to their faith? Why are the voices of criticism against extremist Islam and Islamist terrorism so muted?

Indeed, why is it that all occasional and invariably qualified criticism of these terrorists is accompanied by vague justifications of the need to 'understand root causes' and the 'hurt' caused to the 'Muslim psyche'? Is the 'Muslim psyche' uniquely susceptible to injury?

Venomous characterisations of Hindus, Jews, Christians and, generally, all kafirs, are the stock-in-trade of the discourse in some Muslim countries, often communicated through official media, such as national television channels. The ideologies of hatred against other faiths are systematically propagated in so many Muslim states - we in India are familiar with the Pakistani case, where school curricula routinely demonise non-Muslims.

And do the words or pictures or caricatures by non-Muslims do more injury to the 'Islamic world' than the hideous acts of terrorism that Islamists have been inflicting on non-Muslims - and, indeed, on so many Muslims - all over the world? Worse, after so many Muslim-majority states have simply wiped out their own minorities, or are, even today, in the process of doing so, these very states go shrieking around about 'hurting the sentiments of minorities' when something is said against Muslims or Islam.

Indeed, 'Islamic' states oppress even their own sectarian minorities - be they non-Wahabbi Sunnis in some cases, or Shia, Ismaili, Ahmadiya, or Sufi, in others - not only through systematic denial of elementary religious rights to these sects, but, as in the case of Pakistan, through state sponsored terrorist movements against such minorities - recall that the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan was set up by General Zia-ul-Haq to target Shias in the wake of the Iranian revolution, and continued to enjoy the support of the state under successor regimes, till it got mixed up with the Al Qaeda and anti-US terrorism, and lost its status as a sarkari (state supported) jihadi organisation.

Many 'Islamic' countries have institutionalised this intolerance, outlawing the public practice of any other Faith, and made the possession of any religious icon, other than Muslim, a punishable offence. Non-Muslim minorities live in abject terror of blasphemy laws in Pakistan, as in many other Muslim countries.

The truth is, the state lies behind much of the Islamist extremism and frenzy that we are witnessing today. To return to the case of the Danish cartoons, there was no 'spontaneous outburst' of popular sentiment; it was only after the Organisation of Islamic Countries decided to whip up emotions around the issue, and states like Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Saudi Arabia began to incite the rabble through official statements and actions, or statements by religious leaders tied to the regimes there, disseminated through official media, that the violent street protests commenced.

In Pakistan, the protests and the violence have principally been led by the Jamaat-ud-Dawa - the reincarnation of the purportedly 'banned' Lashkar-e-Toiba - which has flourished under state patronage, and that was cast by the Musharraf administration into a 'leadership' role recently in the relief operations after the earthquake that devastated parts of Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

But the 'cartoon crisis' is not unique. Even while this controversy was raging across the world, Shia minorities were being attacked by Sunni terrorists in Pakistan; in the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir, a case was registered against the local chapter of the Bible Society of India for the 'grievous crime' of distributing "gas cylinders, three water bottles, audio cassettes and a copy of the New Testament in Urdu" to earthquake victims in a village in Uri.

In Ladakh, riots were engineered between Muslims and Buddhists because some torn pages of the Quran were recovered, leading to allegations of sacrilege. In the Aligarh Muslim University, a young girl was being threatened with collective rape for daring to protest against a diktat against wearing jeans and a T-shirt. These are only a few current and proximate examples of a remorseless oppression over the decades.

Such thuggeries are, of course, not unique to Islam. There are extremist groups drawing dubious 'inspiration' from other faiths who ape such conduct as well, and Valentines Day this year - as in the past few years - attracted the ire and violence of Hindu extremist hooligans. But these remain - fortunately - aberrations in the larger context of conduct among adherents of other faiths. They have increasingly become the dominant form of public articulation in the Muslim community.

There is an American Indian saying: 'it takes an entire village to raise a single child'. Similarly, it takes a very large community, often entire nations, to raise a single suicide bomber. For far too long, extremist Muslim discourse has been tolerated - to the point of incitement to murder - in the belief that acts of terrorism are distinct from such ideologies of hatred. But it is the wide acceptance within large sections of Muslim communities in many countries of these ideologies of hatred that produce the environment within which groups can mobilise, recruit motivate, train and deploy terrorists and suicide bombers.

Muslim liberals have long advocated 'understanding and tolerance' when dealing with Muslim sensibilities, but have seldom been known to aggressively argue for greater 'understanding and tolerance' for other faiths in 'Islamic' countries, where the record of intolerance towards and oppression of religious minorities is utterly revolting. There is a great 'Muslim exceptionalism' at work here.

The 'Muslim world' demands an absolute freedom without limits, but confers no freedom whatsoever, either on other faiths, or on dissent within its own faith. The 'tolerance' advocated by certain passages in the Quran is only something to parade at inter-faith conferences, and constitutes no part of the practice of most Muslim majority states - no doubt with occasional exceptions.

The demand, today, to impose a selective censorship in Europe on speech that is insulting to Muslims - when similar speech against other faiths enjoys full freedom - is an effort by Muslim minorities to impose, through mass violence and intimidation, their belief systems within the larger systems they have come to inhabit.

Europe would be, not only foolish, but suicidal, if it succumbs to this terrorism and coercion to invent new curbs on the media and on the freedom of speech. The democratic world must remain committed to its enlightenment values and ideals, and to the rough-and-tumble of free discourse in the 'marketplace of ideas'. All communal thuggeries, whatever faith they may claim to 'represent', must be brought to an end, and every available means must be bent to this purpose.

Personally, I think, the more fun we make of our own religions, the better it will be for the whole world, and, indeed, for our respective Faiths. I am immensely proud of being a Sikh, and am confident that no jokes or cartoons can ever undermine the eternal verities of my religion.


(Published in The Pioneer Newspaper, India.  February 18, 2006)



From Wiki:

Kanwar Pal Singh Gill

Kanwar Pal Gill, was born in Ludhiana, Punjab, India. He began his career as a police officer in the north-eastern state of Assam, quickly earning a reputation as a tough officer. He became a household name across the country as Punjab police chief in the early 1990s, when he was credited with crushing a separatist revolt in the Sikh-majority state.

Widely given credit for addressing the terrorism in Punjab, Mr Gill was dubbed “Super Cop” after his success in Punjab. He publishes the Faultlines journal and runs the Institute for Conflict Management, as well as advising governments and institutions on security related issues. He was asked by the government of Sri Lanka last year for similar advice. Mr Gill has also written a book, “The Knights of Falsehood”, which explores the abuse of religious institutions by the politics of freedom struggle in Punjab.

He got involved in sports administration after retirement and is currently the IHF ( Indian Hockey Federation) president.

He has also been appointed as a consultant by the Chattisgarh government to help tackle the Naxalite movement in the state.


“Democracy and liberalism are not a sufficient defence and this is a fact that the ideologues of ‘freedom’ need, equally, to comprehend. There is a fatal flaw in the liberal mind. Having established, in structure and form [though seldom in substance], a system of governance that corresponds to its conception of democracy, it feels that nothing more needs to be done. The ‘Truths’ of the liberal ideology are, as the American Declaration on the Rights of Man expresses it, ‘Self Evident’. They require no proof, no reiteration, and no defence - certainly no defence by force of arms. Once democracy [or even the ritual of quinquinneal elections] is established, according to liberal mythology, the mystical ‘invisible hand’ keeps everything in place; the ‘superior wisdom of the masses’ ensures order and justice...”. This is just so much rubbish. As we should know after living with falsehoods for fifty years now. Truth does not triumph; unless it has champions to propound it, unless it has armies to defend it.”

From his book, ‘Punjab: The Knights of Falsehood’


For some critics his success is a part of the story started by predecessor Julio Francis Ribeiro who started the “Bullet for Bullet” campaign of hitting back at militants and the strong hand in dealing with militancy adopted by Chief minister Beant Singh.

80 posted on 08/05/2012 10:57:46 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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