Good point!
Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
Dang!
“wasted BANDWIDTH”??
You STILL on dialup?
Then I'll explain.
The comment was made that a few folks kept saying the same things over and over and over and over for at LEAST a year; right?
I was pointing out the fact that over 50,000 LDS 'missionaires' (SLC headquarters figures) do the same things over and over and over and over for at LEAST a year; then they go home; where they get MARRIED (MRs degree) to the girl that has been waiting for their Returned Missionary to appear.
After that 50K are done; then about anOTHER 50K or so hit the highways and byways; trying to sell their product.
Good point!
Your hatred of Mormons bleeds over into every discussion you are involved in here...
Oh shut UP!
The RABID MORMON 'Grig' started this thread and it is NOTHING but 'religion'!
Ask HIM why HE didn't put it in the RELIGION forum!
Oh there you go; ACCUSING me of HATING MORMONs; when the EVIDENCE is CLEAR that I hate what they so FOOLISHLY believe in!
Mormons have a right to their beliefs in this nation...
That's true; and if you have ANY evidence I said they DIDn't; then you WILL produce it; right?
Do I have the 'right' to point out that MORMONism is a HERESY?
No thanks; I'll talk religion ANYWHERE that I please.
I will NOT be shunted off; away from POLITE folks, like a crazy uncle; because it upsets someone elses sensibilities.
Or tidy one up that is alREADY started!
I don't think we can ever transcend Joseph Smith or consider him to be a valued personality, but now we'll move on.I don't think you'll see that among believers in the faith, because there are too many other things that came from himthat are the reasons why we do what we do and we are what we are. That there are unanswered questions, to be sure.That there are things that I'm as anxious as the next guy to learn more detail on, I really want to know. But in the interim,it really doesn't, doesn't trouble me.We're in the religion-making business, as you intimated earlier, only for a short time, I mean, compared to theChristian church, which has been at this for a couple of millennia. We're about halfway to Nicaea.And so, and so in that sense — I remember a very tender moment. I was speaking with — I've been invitedto the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, basically an Evangelical seminary, to discuss a book I had done on Jesus.And they had read it, and they wanted me to come and just respond to questions.And it was, it was a very enjoyable couple of hours.The very last question that was asked by one of my friends there was this one.He said, 'Bob, what can we do for you?'And I, I wasn't ready for that question. I said, 'What do you mean?'He said, 'What can we, as Evangelicals, do for our Mormon friends?'And I, I guess my mind could have gone a hundred different ways, but what I came back with was this.I said, 'Boy, I appreciate you asking that. I don't think I've ever been asked that.'But, but I said, 'Try this. Cut us a little slack, will you? Give us a little time.We're in the religion-making business, and this takes time. It takes centuries.And, and trying to explain the faith and articulate the faith, that doesn't come over night.We've really only been about that for 20 or 30 years.'
You may have a point.
Have you complained about 50,000 folks out ATTACKING Christianity every day?
I'm just a little pissant in comparison.
Can't I fight back before being stomped upon?
I'm afraid you'll not be getting well soon then...
2 Corinthians 11:12
And I will keep on doing what I am doing
in order to cut the ground from under those
who want an opportunity to be considered equal
with us in the things they boast about.
I don’t know Elsie, so I have no idea whether his hatred of the religion spills over to individual Mormons or not.
Thank you.
This is true.
Unfortunately, many have been driven off this site...as if we can afford to run off conservatives simply because of their religious beliefs. Grig is just another in a long line.
This is UNTRUE.
They could NOT get their way; bitched and moaned that they couldn't; called folks names; compared them to NAZIs; made veiled (barely) threats; insulted JIM ROBISON.
There are STILL plenty of MORMONs left on FR. Their 'religion'; will NOT get them 'driven' away.
Their ATTITUDES and MANNERs will; just like I will get the feared (or desired, it appears, in some cases) ZOT if I become as nasty as some of the sorry examples of MORMONism that USED to have free reign to post on FR: the BEST conservative website on the web!! (Unashamed suckup by ELSIE)
“Come on in boys; the water’s fine!”
Delmar
Your ping list has gotten very good at trapping opposition posters into zots.
Its disgusting.
O...
K...
But would you like to pray about the Book of MORMON; to see if it's true?
Yelling "FIRE!!!" in a theater...
He WAS?
DAng!
I must have been on vacation when that happened.
...behind the curtain?
HMMmmm...
Some on FR appear to disagree with MY 'lifestyle'; posting the way I do on FR.
You 'understand' one; but not the other?
Allow me to explain...
If a THREAD starts up, with a broad appeal that FI's may be interested in; they get pinged.
Perhaps the 'LIST' was NOT pinged initially; but some poster, down the line, makes a STATEMENT that may appeal to us; THEN we get pinged.
See; it is not as SINISTER as you would try to paint it.
(MORMONs have NEVER done the above; either. -- Baghdad Bob)
I see!
Book of MORMON = BM
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