Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
The intense level of vitriol spewed by some Evangelicals toward Mormonism makes it plausible that some already unbalanced person Westboro Baptist type might feel justified resorting to violence to ‘protect’ America from having a Mormon president. The replies reflect that a lot of people see that as plausible, and you don’t have anybody to blame but yourselves for that.
Well, Canadian-meddling-in-US-politics Grig, several mormons have ridden the zot train for making accusations/insinuations against other FReepers like the ones you have made.
Since you are not a US citizen, the ONLY dog you have in this hunt is mormonism, and prepare yourself for months of exposure of the cult by the media.
Who will you "dare" then?
Why haven't you pinged Jim Robinson to your thread and your anti-FR and anti-Christian comments?...that's pretty cowardly.
Ping to 200
“The intense level of vitriol spewed by some Evangelicals toward Mormonism makes it plausible that some already unbalanced person Westboro Baptist type...”
Equating evangelicals with the folks from Westboro Baptist is less accurate and more libelous than equating members of the LDS with the most extreme, polygamy-loving, little girl-raping off-shoot of the LDS.
Your statement here is despicable.
sitetest
Advice from Grig, whose original post and all those following reek of hatred and condemnation of other FReepers.
Rather that have a sissy fit, explain why the posted information about mormonism is wrong.
Rather than have a sissy fit over lds words......well sorry I guess you can't give an explanation, because when mormonism is exposed its all ya got.
Just like your founder, I am sure if he could he would say - good job cunuk.
***
“What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.”
(Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)
***
We will establish our religion with the sword. We will trample down our enemies and make it one gore of blood, from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean. I will be to this generation a 2nd Muhammad, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Al-Qur’an or the sword.’ So shall it be with us — ‘Joseph Smith or the sword!’
(History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 167)
Since you are a cunuk, you don’t even have a dog in the hunt, so really this is about your elliptical behavior because mormonism and its insanity are being exposed.
It is polite to ping the people you are trashing.
I hope against hope that the admins do not take this thread down, you like mormonism need to be exposed.
True colors shining through.....message to Christians from the mormon church via Grig.
Excellent synopsis of this all...
The locals in Ohio were POd because Smith began a "bank" of sorts there, created $3 bills, reneged on accounts/investments...and literally left in the middle of the night.
They had an newby "apostle" set fire to their printing operations building -- all because they didn't want the "anti-Mormons" to take it over to print things Smith couldn't control about Mormonism.
Interestingly Joseph Smith had a bar in his living room where the guys could get together smoke their cigars and belt back a few of their home made brew while playing cards.
Oh, and today SLC lds have vineyards.
You don’t know anything about mormonism do you? If you did you wanted not have made such an uninformed post.
If you think US elections don’t have an impact on things up here in Canada you are very mistaken. I’ve spoken out on many past US presidential election where no Mormon was involved and if your only defense against what I say is to call me Canadian, that is a pretty weak counter argument.
I made no accusation, I only offered an opinion based on my experience and on history. I don’t really care what you think of it, I’ll be quite happy for there to be no such attempt on the POTUS by anybody.
Please tell me Grig, just how you came to that conclusion. Was it because your LDS church presented you with that 'motivation?"
Because the true facts are:
Joseph Smith was a serial fornicator.
He was arrested for a violation of the 1st amendment rights of an individual who had the audacity to publish embarrassing facts against him.
He had instigated attacks on the property rights of other settlers.
He was a heretical heathen who was brazen enough to try to install himself as King.
Now tell me again how he was killed for his faith in Jesus Christ!
We are to call out false prophets and teachings.
mormonism bastardizes the Word of God Almighty.
This is the foundation on mormonism and you can see it in Grig's original post.
Hun he is threatening you and your generations to come just as Joseph Smith did as seen below.
Get a clue and don't be a mealy Christian, the lack of boldness just to get along is why we are were we are.
**** “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)
*** We will establish our religion with the sword. We will trample down our enemies and make it one gore of blood, from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean. I will be to this generation a 2nd Muhammad, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Al-Qur’an or the sword.’ So shall it be with us — ‘Joseph Smith or the sword!’ (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 167)
My criticism of Romney is based on the fact that he is the most liberal "Republican" ever to seek the nomination, much less actually get it. He has a lifelong track record of being pro-abortion, pro-socialism, pro-homosexual marriage and adoption and he is on record as saying that he was basically a RINO.
The fact that Romney believes that there are a gazillion gods and that every once in a while they get together on the Planet Kolob and vote to exalt more gods into the fraternity of gods and that he will someday be numbered in that fraternity certainly doesn't make me any more likely to vote for him.
Those evangelicals who are vocal about their opposition to MormonISM, actually have more concern for the souls of Mormons than those who have no opinion on the subject or who think that Mormons can actually get into heaven by believing that Jesus Christ is not the Eternal God, but simply the older brother of Satan.
Grig, you need to wake up to the fact that Mormonism is not Christian and that Romney is not now or has he ever been a Republican.
Just as Mormons are, in fact, wolves in sheep's clothing pretending to be Christians, Romney is a wolf in sheep's clothing pretending to be a Republican.
Well, after pointing out how FR has devolved into an anti-Mormon love-fest, hurting FR in the process, (a view several non-Mormon posters above expressed agreement with), the anti-Mormons are here to just prove my point in their own way.
I guess my work on this thread is done. Thank you all. I look forward to your reactions to Romney’s election and terms as POTUS.
I do agree with you in one respect, we may at some point consider the LDS a branch of Christianity, but only because the powers that be finally realize that chucking the BOM and the Smithian ideas is the only path to survival in the information age.
Is that the meme now? If you don’t “buy into Christian creeds” you’re still a Christian, just a “non-orthodox” one? LOL. This gets wilder and wilder. I guess I can go make up a religion that says Dog the Bounty Hunter is my prophet, and he’s going to send me in handcuffs to another planet to create a race of people with mullets and camo costumes.....and I’m still a Christian, just a “non-orthodox” kind.
To deny God’s word is to be non-Christian. That denial includes claims that God was a man who became a god, and there are plural gods and goddesses; human beings may become gods; Jesus Christ is a created being; Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient to remove our sins; and God had intercourse with Mary to conceive Jesus. (God forgive me for even speaking such blasphemy). None of this was “revealed by God”. You can easily google a list of sixty prophecies made by Joseph Smith which never came true, and Scripture tells us that a single false prophecy is proof of a false prophet. Don’t bother saying they have yet to come true——many of them had dates of fulfillment, and those dates came and went.
Again, believe whatever you please. But don’t try to pass it off as Christianity; it will never wash.
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