Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
I put the following into the search line on google:
site:www.freerepublic.com "magic underpants"
I got 235 results..Romney's name was mentioned in those 235 FR posts..but what you are saying is that in no way reflects intolerance towards Mormonism?
Romney's religion is attacked as much or more than his positions, and to deny it is bs.
That's a statement of fact.
I'm a born again Christian and believe that the Mormon faith is wrong. However, I don't let it poison my view of Mitt or any other Mormon. They live peaceably with me, unlike Islam.
He's just another politician, and he's remarkably lackluster ~ and there are some fundamental moral questions about him, and that's all typical of just about any politician, but he wants to run for President as the candidate of our party.
He is our nominee against the worst President of the modern era, a man that is doing his best to destroy the foundations of America. Lackluster, moderate, or whatever...he has my vote and should have yours if you give a damn about your country.
A post from May, 2011 ago pointing out the Mormon acrimony was ruining FR. Over a thousand replies on that thread, and here we are, over a year later..same old, same old.
Comment from a year ago:
It seems that it’s the SAME people, over and over again, posting the SAME comments, the SAME pictures, the SAME talking points, the SAME links, the Same scripture..ad nauseum.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2724560/posts
And yes, in June 2012, it’s still the SAME People, SAME comments, SAME links...
Well said.
No! The OP.
Lol...
“Yes, we all know about that prophecy thing, (that some Mormon will save the USA, or something like that)...”
What you are referring to is something the church has denounced as a fake. There are a number of second hand accounts of Joseph Smith saying something along the lines of the brethren of the Church being instrumental in preserving the constitution in some unspecified way, but no first hand account so we don’t know exactly what he said. None of the second hand accounts however talk in terms of one single Mormon doing this, only of the church as a whole so trying to link it to Romney is invalid.
They are only my predictions, not prophecies.
I have been following politics since 1960. I saw how the election was stolen from Nixon and I spent every spare minute I had working in the Goldwater headquarters in Tucson. I don't know how the primaries were stolen from conservatives other than the fact some states have open primaries.
I see the problem as this...Mitt didn't just proclaim himself as the winning candidate. Voters put him there. He was absolutely my last choice as a candidate, but I truly believe Obama has to go or we will not have a U.S.
The Republicans did not put a strong viable conservative candidate in place this year. The candidates all had good ideas but they were essentially lightweights. Newt was the smartest of the bunch and he would have destroyed Obama in the debates, but the MSM would have crucified him.
We have what we have and I am going to vote ABO.
Thank you for your insightful response. I envy your ability to post unencumbered by facts, truth or reason.
Thanks!
Suggestion: Go slowly. Learn the lay of the land. Don't be liberal.
Sorry to hear you feel that way. To me it’s a race to the bottom with these two. Jimmy Carter should be happy at any outcome. He’ll no longer be at the bottom.
I agree with your critique of FR. Lots of absolutely absurd crap flowing here these days.
Less certain about your predictions, but I hope you are right.
At this point I only see Romney as the ‘lesser of 2 evils’, which is something I have become used to all the way back to when I was first old enough to vote.
It is plain as day to me that 4 more years of Obama and there will be nothing left of this nation worth fighting for.
p
Yet of the almost 70 posters who responded in the first 150+ replies to this Mormon-accusing-Evangelicals of being in the same assassination terrorist camp as Jihadists...
...(Actual Grig quote: "If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical")
...only two posters (I believe) thought this incendiary prophesy was "over the top vitriol" eh???
...looks to me @ first glance that only two posters referenced this...
If the reverse was done -- if a present or future MORMON had been pegged as a presidential assassin on a thread, the hue and cry would have been great from the Mormons, the Romney supporters, and even others...and a zot probably would have been prompt.
Mormon Reno232 got the zot for suggesting that a FREEPER may have been involved in the shooting/killing of a California Lds bishop.
Grig was less personal (no FREEPER mention) -- but by being less personal, he intoned the entire Evangelical wing had given birth or was about to give birth to a presidential assassin.
Thanks for the ecumenical-let's-inspire-Evangelicals-to-rally-around-Romney vanity, Grig. I'm glad the mods have left it up. Will be a "great rallying cry" knowing where on the totem pole Mormons place Evangelicals...not just right next to Muslims in general, but jihadist terrorists. And not just "plain" murderers, but presidential assassins.
I guess we now know who Romney would direct the CIA and other agencies to have under its domestic microscope in a Romney presidency as the top-of-the-line perceived "security threat." Most Chinese are in China; most Muslims overseas; % - wise -- given that Evangelicals constituted over 1/3rd of the 2010 vote in the U.S. -- I guess us Evangelicals is where Romney will be placing his "security threat" budget, eh, Grig?
If Romney-as-POTUS could just spend $billions tracking down us Evangelicals who are little more outspoken about Mormonism, that would cover your concern about "religious intolerance" and "some very inflammatory rhetoric from some corners of the evangelical world about having a Mormon POTUS that could incite a nutjob to violence." (Grig, post #105)
But, of course, Grig, we know your vanity wasn't "inflammatory" and was fully "tolerant" of us Evangelicals... /sarc
False prophesy.
(Perhaps BOTH you and Grig should get out of that industry now)
Some Mormons became ex- Mormons...like members within my family...like five of the FREEPERs I pinged above. And guess what? Some present Mormons will become ex-Mormon.
Well, I see you "high-fived" Grig's "prophesy" that the Evangelicals or "fellow" jihadists -- the Muslims -- may give birth to a presidential assassin. (See post #156 for extended comment on this)
I don’t judge anyone by their religion
If you owned a retail outlet, would you apply the same standard re: those greenbacks being placed in your cash register? You wouldn't ever have any discussions with your employees about a thing called "counterfeit bills" -- because who wants to be "judgmental" about counterfeit currency or counterfeiters?
(Talk to Daxton Brown; he can tell you about Mormons linked to the Nevada gambling industry)
No less audatious claim than yours that even one FREEPER may be motivated by "hate."
You see, hatred is an internal motivator. And last time I looked on the market, I didn't see anybody who had yet invented a Magic 8-ball or Mormon peep stone that readily extracted and properly judged internal motivations from people.
1 Samuel 16:7 says ...The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
Please don't reverse that order; please don't assign men sovereign heart assessment power.
Unless posters have come right out and said they "hate" something or someone, we have no right or power or authority to inwardly judge their motivations. It's the liberal argument to claim that those opposing the homosexual agenda "hate" the homosexual. The fact that so many FREEPERs have given in to embracing that parallel lie either shows the power of the MSM or liberal campus multi-cultural education -- or both working in tandem.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.