Posted on 12/24/2011 8:20:24 AM PST by shield
For those coming in late, let me summarize*: both Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry have been excluded from the Virginia Republican primary by the Virginia GOP. This has placed the VA GOP in an awkward situation, given that: they have excluded the current national and Virginian front-runner from their own ballot; have currently no write-in option on the ballot; do have an open primary that anyone can vote in; and generally have created an environment peculiarly suited for conspiracy theories involving Mitt Romney (and ones that won’t contain the word ‘Mormon’ anywhere in their description, by the way). The current defenses to all of this are “rules are rules” and “any campaign that couldn’t follow them are by definition poor campaigns:” I will leave it to the individual reader to decide just how either argument will play in, say, Peoria; I am frankly of the opinion that the above defenses are well-suited towards reassuring Romney and/or Paul voters – and will do very little to persuade the other 60-65% or so of likely Republican primary voters.
But since I’m telling Mitt Romney what won’t help his situation, it kind of behooves me to tell him what might.
(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.com ...
You see Mad Dawg, I am using the LEGAL definition which has been used in every Equal Protection case ever heard before the Supreme Court.
You are using a common dictionary definition, which explains why you are not a lawyer and I am.
Now go back to law school and next time PAY ATTENTION!
Madd Dawg, bless his little logically challenged heart - is totally immune to reason and logic and common sense. But damn, he drives 54 mph and he recycles and he probably only texts one vote in for American Idol (and I”m sure he is a big Idol fan).
Because as we know, rules are rules.
Yes, they did. But, I am just confused about the 15K thing. How is that right? I mean, my arm might hurt after awhile, but I could get out county phone books and come up with that number. Since they would not be looked over or scrutinized, who cares if they are all in my handwriting. lol
Whatever, it is the open primary and no write ins that make it that much worse. And, we were thinking of moving to VA at one point, so it would have mattered to me then. lol
I hope it all works out well. We have our own fires to put out up here. :)
Ha Ha. “The DC Establishment seems unable to function as sonservs”
This should come as no surprise. The DC Establishment are RepubliCONs and they are Not conservatives. The two are mutually exclusive groups.LOL.
Assuming the author meant Peoria, Illinois - we've had the same rules that are causing such a ruckus in Virginia in place here for years now.
Sheesh, no "conspiracy" - it's the campaign's inability to gather enough legitimate signatures.
The general rule of gathering petition signatures is to gather at least 30% more signatures than is required to allow for invalid signatures and any petition challenges.
Anyone who's ever worked for a political campaign and gathered signatures knows this. The fact that both Gingrich's and Perry's campaigns didn't do precisely this is a stunning display of incompetence by both their campaigns, specifically the person in charge at the VA State Level for knowing and adhering to VA's election laws.
(Disclaimer: My preferred candidate is Gingrich, so spare me the "you're a Romneybot" flames.)
hahah then show us your definition and cite a source. Being that you have identified yourself as a lawyer you must know that I am doubly suspect of anything you post.
Lawyers are the main reason the USA is in this dilapidated condition.
You bring up a reality that the “rules are the rules” robots cannot process in their extremely left brained existences: that a primary that is Romney V Paul will be a national joke and a total embarrassment to those two candidates and to Virginia’s GOP.
There is a revolt going on nationally against capricious and arbitrary idiotic rules - and here is Virginia featuring it in their primary. Mitt will be the big loser whether or not he finishes 1st or 2nd in this sham, as will Bob McDonnell.
So the “rules are the rules” crowd can sit and watch their beloved theory go up in flames of a national disgrace and embarrassment.
For whatever reason Romney and Ron Paul did not undergo the certification process in 2012. Presumably it is because they were grandfathered in from 2008 somehow. (Ditto Obama)
The actual details are still unclear. It seems to be related to getting 15,000 sigs. We don’t know if the 15,000 sigs refers to 2008 or 2012, and it is also unclear if the 15,000 number is enshrined somewhere in VA state law or is just a rule in the VA GOP.
Which would have been better Gingrich getting far more Valid Signatures than needed or him challenging such in court after he failed to do so like the liberals tend to do?
Exactly correct. If either Romney or Paul (raving nutter that he is..) had any common sense or Campaign Managers worth their salt, both would withdraw from the VA race. It's an embarassment to the Republican Party and if it's allowed to continue in its current form will be cannon fodder for the Democrats come convention time.
Granted, I doubt Romney's ego will let him drop out and Ron Paul is such a raving nutbag that he'll see it as a "convincing win" as will his Paultard supporters.
Then don't post to me any more. I shall return the favor.
Merry Christmas.
Is there anyone besides Romney on the ballot?
I read a post that quoted the law. The way it is written appears to leave some wiggle room. Three points:
It does not specifically prohibit write ins for the primary.
Second, it does require that write ins be accepted in the general election, but allows the primary write ins to be excluded.
Third, since the majority of Virginians (according to polls) appear to favor other candidates, a legal challenge for disenfranchisement as well as “equal protection” challenges could be made regarding the rules.
At the very least, an effort might have to be made to verify whether the database address or address written on the form is correct.
Well, you’re obviously not a lawyer who practices in VA or you’d know it’s a LAW here that establishes qualifications to be on the ballot. The state parties certify the petitions, but don’t write election laws. This isn’t Massachusetts.
The failure was not asking for grassroots help. I would have gladly helped Perry, Santorum, Bachmann and Newt get signatures in my district. To get the magical 15,000 signatures an average of 1,364 signatures would be needed from each district; a challenge for sure. I’m not aware that any of the respective campaigns state chairs put out a call for help. Frankly, that bothers me a lot.
hahahahah Well done councilor nice strategic maneuver to avoid providing the bona fides for your claim.
How does that old saw go again?
"If the facts are on your side, bang on the facts. If the law is on your side, bang on the law. If neither the facts nor the law is on your side, bang on the table."
Did you hurt your hand banging on the table? hahahahah
True but it is the party that certifies the petitions and apparently this is the first time in VA history that the VA GOP actually bothered to cross check the addresses. The fact that they have never bothered before makes the application of the law in this case arbitrary.
If the law is applied in an arbitrary manner the law is unconstitutional. Also if it does not advance a legitimate legislative goal or it is irrational in substance or application it violates the Equal Protection clause. I have made my arguments on this thread as to why that is the case.
There are several reasons why this law is unconstitutional. But in this case it has clearly been unconstitutionally applied.
The Republican Party of Virginia urges candidates to aim for 15,000 signatures, to allow a cushion for those who have not updated the information on the voter rolls. That doesn’t mean they don’t check the signatures. Lots of misinformation out there.
*****then show us your definition and cite a source*****
You can start with these:
BAREFOOT v. ESTELLE, 463 U.S. 880 (1983).
FURMAN v. GEORGIA, 408 U.S. 238 (1972).
HERRERA v. COLLINS, 506 U.S. 390 (1993).
LOCKHART v. MCCREE, 476 U.S. 162 (1986).
MCCLESKEY v. KEMP, 481 U.S. 279 (1987).
MILLS v. MARYLAND, 486 U.S. 367 (1988).
PENRY v. JOHNSON, 532 U.S. 782 (2001).
POWELL v. ALABAMA, 287 U.S. 45 (1932).
RING v. ARIZONA, 536 U.S. 584 (2002).
ROBERTS v. LOUISIANA, 431 U.S. 633 (1977).
STRICKLAND v. WASHINGTON, 466 U.S. 668 (1984).
THOMPSON v. OKLAHOMA, 487 U.S. 815 (1988).
STANFORD v. KENTUCKY, 492 U.S. 361 (1989).
WILKERSON v. UTAH, 99 U.S. 130 (1878).
WITHERSPOON v. ILLINOIS, 391 U.S. 510 (1968).
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