Cain Proposes Electrified Border Fence

Pravda- NY Times Division ^ | 10/15/11 | Wyatt

[VinL]

Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain said Saturday that part of his immigration policy would be to build an electrified fence on the country’s border with Mexico that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally...

Mr. Cain added that he also would consider using military troops “with real guns and real bullets” on the border to stop illegal immigration.

The remarks were among the most pointed yet by Mr. Cain about illegal immigration, and they come as he is enjoying a surge in national political polls on the back of his victory in a recent Florida straw poll..

It is not the first time that Mr. Cain has floated the idea of an electrified fence. He has told the story many times of a caller to his former radio show who chastised him for talking about building a border fence, saying that such an idea was impractical.

“It’s going to be 20 feet high. It’s going to have barbed wire on the top. It’s going to be electrified. And there’s going to be a sign on the other side saying, ‘It will kill you — Warning.’” At an earlier rally, on the campus of Tennessee Tech University in Cookeville, Tenn., he added that the sign would be written “in English and in Spanish.”

“This nation has always been a nation with wide open doors,” Mr. Cain said at the second rally. “We want to make it easy for people to come through the front door. And we’re going to shut off the back door so you don’t have to sneak into America.”

[The Theophilus]

I guess I was picturing more like the Jurrassic park fence rather than one for my dog.

Now you got me thinking about movie themed solutions. Every illegal crim that is picked up has a combination dog collar with the virtual fence for dogs that shocks the dog when it crosses the buried wire, and serious C4 charge attached with anti-jimmy features so that the results of attempts of removing it are literally mind blowing.

[mylife]

More Border patrol and to some extent National Guard, although there are issues with using national guard that led to legal challenges and generally reduce them to not being armed.

We could use Homeland security, but I am Leary of expanding their powers or sphere.
I don’t think that Dept should even have been created.

Perry has done a good job of increasing border security with Texans money despite all the legal issues with the Feds

[Polybius]

There is no land that the government has to take to build the fence.

Are we back to declaring war on Mexico again in order to build the Fence on the MEXICAN SIDE, as you advocated earlier on this thread?

"WAR WITH MEXICO! VOTE CAIN!"

Yes, that is one great way to defeat Obama. < /sarc>

Again, let's get back to reality instead of over-dosing on Red Meat sloganeering:

FIRST:

Perry's strategy is EXACTLY the strategy used, right now, by Israel along it's southern border. See Post 119.

SECOND:

Even though there is nothing of value to fence off in the middle of the Negev Desert, not even the Israelis build a Fence in the middle of the Negev Desert for practical reasons.

Yet, what will be fenced off with a Texas Fence will be THE ENTIRE RIO GRANDE WATERFRONT which is of incalculable value.

THIRD:

No, muawiyah, the Fence will NOT be built on the MEXICAN SIDE. Invading Mexico, conquering foreign soil and building a Fence on the MEXICAN SIDE in the 21st Century is nothing more than a Red Meat Fantasy on Steroids.

October 28, 2006 ... Texas ranchers, business owners are troubled by border fence plan

MISSION, Texas - Jeff Reed offers outdoor dining on the Rio Grande at his restaurant, Pepe's on the River. But with the U.S. government planning to build 700 miles of fence along the Mexican border, he has to wonder: Will his restaurant soon be "Pepe's on the Fence"?

Downriver in Brownsville, where the jalapeno and lima bean fields run down to the water's edge, farmer Fermin Leal is wondering whether the government intends to cut through his crops, run irrigation pipes under the fence, or buy him out.

"Most of our land goes up to what's supposed to be the border, and yes, we need access to river water," Leal said.

President Bush signed a law Thursday to erect more fences along the border to secure it against illegal immigrants, drug smugglers and terrorists. Republicans in Congress see it as their most significant accomplishment on immigration. The president called it "an important step in our nation's efforts to secure our borders."

But up and down Texas' watery boundary with Mexico, farmers, ranchers and business owners are worried a fence will endanger their livelihoods and encroach on their property.

Texas landowners - sick of illegal immigrants cutting their fences, stealing and trespassing, and tired of worrying about smugglers of humans and drugs endangering their families - have been demanding for years that Congress tighten the border.

But not, some say, with a double-layer, $6 billion fence cutting through their land and keeping them and their livestock from the river.

"It's not going to work in Texas," said Michael Vickers, who owns a cattle ranch on the border. "Who wants to close off the river to Mexico? The river is the lifeblood for a lot of cities."

Vickers said he worries that either his land will be cut off from the rest of the state and the country or he will lose access to 50 acres of water rights he has and can sell to area municipalities for up to $2,000 an acre.

"I'd be in a DMZ-type zone, in between two countries," Vickers said.

The exact route the fences will take is not yet clear. And it is not yet known what the fences will look like - how tall they will be, whether they will be solid walls, or bars.

Much of the land along the Texas side of the river is privately owned, some dating back to Spanish land grants. The government's $1.2 billion "down payment" on the fences is only a fraction of the estimated cost, which will also include the expense of compensating property owners for any land taken through eminent domain.

[rolling_stone]

I guess you cant take a joke?
Amazing how Perry supporters swear 999 cant get passed but now Cain will get a moat with alligators and a fatal electric fence passed through Congress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7O1zZdDIiIk

[logician2u]

Yep, this latest statement is for sure going to win Cain over with the neo-isolationists and assorted sado-masochists who didn't have a candidate as of yesterday.

The rest of us, including a good portion of his erstwhile supporters, should be appalled.

Could this be Herman's "I'd bomb Mecca and Medina" moment?

[TigersEye]

Amazing how many geniuses we have on this site...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5323928

Nice post! Even NPR knows that fences work.

[muawiyah]

NONE of the land within X ft of the border, or in the path of the Rio is private property. Never was even if it were a Spanish or Mexican landgrant.

That issue was settled long ago in the USSC.

End of the story.

If you have riparian rights, get your pipes and your pumps.

BTW, I took a Google Earth journey along the entire route of the river and there's a ROAD on the North shore virtually the entire way.

[Netizen]

It is a tongue-in-cheek statement, hyperbole, that emphasizes that he believes in strong border security. When he says it in a speech, it kills.

He serious position on border security is that it is the federal responsibility and that the border must be physically secured with many different means to meet the challenges of various terrains.

---

Marie, you might have just figured it out. By making statements like this, he is almost assured of being asked about it during the next debate! It makes sure that he gets some air time! Then he can present his real views! :)

Secure the border with more boots on the ground
I do believe we can secure the border with a combination of boots on the ground, technology, and a fence, but we’ve got three other problems. And to get to it, we’ve got to secure the border.

Secondly, let’s promote the path to citizenship that’s already there. We don’t need a new one, we just need to clean up the bureaucracy that’s slowing the process down and discouraging people.

The third thing we need to do, enforce the laws that are there, and the way we do it, empower the states. I believe that the people closest to the problem are the best ones to be able to solve that problem. Empower the states to do what the federal government hasn’t done, can’t do, and won’t do. This is how we solve the entire problem.
Source: 2011 GOP debate in Simi Valley CA at the Reagan Library , Sep 7, 2011

We have a path to citizenship: it’s called legal immigration
Q: When Pres. Obama joked about protecting the borders with alligators and a moat, not only did you embrace the idea, you upped the ante with “a 20-foot barbed wire electrified fence.” Were you serious?

A: America has got to learn how to take a joke. But allow me to give you my real solution to the immigration problem. I happen to believe that is four problems.

Yes, we must secure the border with whatever means necessary.
Enforce the laws that are there.
Promote the path to citizenship that’s already there. We have a path to citizenship for illegal aliens. It’s called legal immigration.
And then, I happen to agree with empowering the states and allow them to deal with that issue. If we work on the right problem, we will be able to solve it.

And in the case of immigration, we’ve got four problems that we need to work on simultaneously. We can have high fences and wide open doors, all at the same time.
Source: Iowa Straw Poll 2011 GOP debate in Ames Iowa , Aug 11, 2011

Not right to sue Arizona for trying to protect themselves
I want to share with you my three guiding principles so you know what type of leader I will be. Three of my guiding principles that have guided my life; guided the decisions I made when I was running companies; and guided my family.

Guiding principle #1: Do the right thing. It was not right to sue the state of Arizona when they were simply trying to protect themselves. You will always be able to count on Herman Cain to do what is right.
Guiding principle #2: We have got to lead this nation from an entitlement society to an empowerment society, by getting government out of the way. We’ve got to empower states to do what states do best: to solve the people’s problems at the state level. Empowerment, not entitlement
Guiding principle #3: It’s not about us. We have to defend the life of the unborn. We must defend those principles that this nation was founded upon.

Source: 2011 Faith and Freedom Conference , Jun 4, 2011

Secure our borders; enforce our laws
Americans have embraced their role as the world’s premier “melting pot,” welcoming immigrants from every corner of the planet. We readily learn about other cultures, customs and beliefs. We appreciate those who are willing to come to this country and mak America a more vibrant and enriched place.

Americans do resent, however, the willingness of some to circumvent our laws and enter our nation illegally. While many, if not most, illegal immigrants are peaceful people simply seeking to provide for their families, some are not. In fact, some are quite dangerous, jeopardizing the safety and well-being of American citizens.

Illegal immigration also puts a tremendous strain on America’s entitlement and health care systems. In fact, several hospitals in the U.S. have declared bankruptcy as a result of the costs of caring for illegal immigrants.

We must secure our borders, enforce our laws and promote the existing path to citizenship.ÿ
Source: Campaign website, www.hermancain.com/ “Issues” , May 21, 2011

Where’s the fence? Not in the Immigration Bill!
The Comprehensive Immigration Bill debated in the Senate last week was dead on arrival. Most regular folks kept screaming, “Where’s the fence?”

The Immigration Bill was supposed to be good compromise legislation. It is just bad legislation with different agendas glued together, while not emphasizing enough of the public’s number one priority - the fence! Not just wire, wood and concrete, but all the technologies we have available to stop the rampant inflow of illegal aliens into this country.
Source: Political column, THE New Voice, “Immigration Bill” , Jun 11, 2007

[mylife]

So why arent they doing it?

This is Texas.. The White part of the map is privately owned property. The Light Green bits belong to the Forrest Dept, The Dark Green bit belongs to the Fed Gov.

[GregH]

Ther is little chance of such a policy actually passing congress and even if it does some federal judge somewhere will lock it.

Lawyers will have a filed day suing the US govt.

Cain is throwing a lot of red meat and these kind of policies are just stunts.

[lwoodham]

I wonder if a fence like this would act like one of those bug Zappers and actually attract them to the fence. It sounds like an excellent idea. If we install windmills to capture the inrush of wind as they are sucked in it could be made to be very efficient producing most of the power to the alien sucker fence from the windmills. And just think, this would actually keep them from become illegals so they would stay legit.

[jonrick46]

Why build a tunnel when they can blow up the fence:

"After masked men blew a series of huge holes in the border fence late last night, thousands of Palestinians streamed through the holes and swarmed the streets of the Egyptian border town of Rafah, clearing local shops of whatever they could manage to buy and carry off: milk, powdered detergent and the occasional motorcycle."

[Marie]

Can you post this whole thing here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2793387/posts

??

(I’d do it, but I don’t want to take credit! Good job!)

[mylife]

And what do Cains comments here show us?

[TexMom7]

No It’s OUR problem. They are infested in the US right now.

You need someone who knows how to deal with it.
Not someone who shoots off their mouth not knowing what they are talking about.

For instance, the drug cartels need to be dealt with NOW and a stupid electrified fence will take years and years.
Then all they have to do is short the fence. It’s stupid.

Worked ok in the other border states because the Federal Government owned or had an easement on the border. There wasn’t a 1200 mile river, huge lakes, mountains, steep cliffs, a national park, resorts and a river that snakes. Plus there is a treaty with Mexico. Texas has no easements - property belongs to businesses, individuals and municipalities.

The Federal Government cannot just take land away from Texans on a whim. They cannot take the land away from the Apache Indians that own a huge amount of that border.

I have no doubt that those people would be ok with miltary, border patrol and guard because they allow them access now.
They don’t like Obama, they don’t like Nappy lady and they do not like the Feds. Why do you think they never completed the last 100 miles of the fence in the 2006 Fence Act? They ran into huge issues.

Here is someone who knows what to do:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/961550664001/uncut-greta-and-gov-perry-tour-texas-border-pt-1/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRqc_0Ol2iY

http://video.foxnews.com/v/961515175001/uncut-greta-and-gov-perry-tour-texas-border-pt-3/

Oh and BTW: there are alligators in the Rio Grande.

Alligators have been caught by hunters and when they opened them up (Alligator taste pretty good) anyway

when they opened them up - there were parts of bodies.

Not only that - the parts belong to different people.

There are photos of it on the internet.
I would normally caution people due to graphic nature but from the posts I have been reading....well...

[berdie]

Sorry I didn’t see your post earlier..

But a feed lot preparing for slaughter is far different than a rancher fattening the herd for the slaughter.

The cattle in the feed lot are there for a short period of time. Raising cattle is another story.

[Diggity]

Sola Powa

[mylife]

Ahh...

We should adopt the principles of your Uncle Adolph?

[Norm Lenhart]

Then you machine gun them and repair the hole...of course, with the proposed fencing and patrols/towers etc, that wouldn’t happen. They’d be machine gunned first.

This is also where landmines help.

[muawiyah]

Throughout the Upper Midwest you find "feed lots" that keep cows from birth.

No sense letting them run around breaking legs.