Posted on 10/09/2011 10:22:04 PM PDT by Ripliancum
"...It probably irks Mitt to have to discuss his faith in this way, but the Mormon debate could be of net benefit to his campaign.
...True, there is a small but significant minority who say they would never vote for a Mormon. According to Gallup, it’s around 22 percent of the population. But opposition to Mormonism doesn’t come from conservative Evangelicals or Catholics. On the contrary, Gallup’s polls show that it’s a liberal thing. Only 7 percent of Baptists and Catholics wouldn’t vote for a Mormon, compared with 32 percent of gays and 49 percent of atheists. Amusingly, the figure is also much, much higher among Mormons, at 22 percent. That’s right, 22 percent of Mormons would never vote for a Mormon. Perhaps they know something we don’t."
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
that should be expected as one Rhino to another Rhino do stick together!
- - —
That just gave me an obscene image that I really did not need. LOL.
I appreciate your thoughts. The Mormons I know truly believe what they believe & live accordingly. Why is it that they are “selling” another Christ, & you, who has your own set of beliefs, are not “selling” me, for example who thinks the Trinity is false (& can back that up w/ the Bible), another Christ? That’s what I mean about a polite discussion/debate. Selling?
We all have our beliefs, & to the best of my knowledge, have never spoken w/ the Savior face to face, so we are left w/ only beliefs. so, why not respect others?
As far as the Savior & how He treated His adversaries, remember, He was Lord & sinless. He will be our judge. He therefore had the right to do what He did. We are all sinners & were told explicitly by the Lord NOT to judge. So, to say you can do all that the Lord did, would be like saying you could atone for the sins of others. There are some things the Lord reserved only for Himself. I would rather ere on the side of not judging & be happy rather than to judge people trying to do good things & be angry all day, every day.
It works for me for what it’s worth.
IMHO - about 75 % of Mormons are ignorant Christians. That does leave 25% that are odd. Which group is Romney in? I can't see into the mans heart and soul but his RINO actions tell me his is no conservative and acts against his own churches teachings. My guess is he is part of that 75%.
Excellent post! Most people don’t understand the mentality of those in cults and the differences in witnessing to cult members and in witnessing to general non-believers.
Don’t know much about real Mormonism do you?
The basic heretical teachings (Christ was created, earned his godhood, Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer, salvation by works) are teachings ALL attending (active) Mormons know and believe. And it is the basic teachings that make them not Christians at all.
The reason the LDS get ‘basic’ Christian questions ‘right’ is because they have different meanings for words Christians use. They intentionally do this, knowing Christians mean different things to ‘sound’ Christian. That is deceptive.
http://utlm.org/onlineresources/terminologymain.htm
>>> his RINO actions tell me his is no conservative and acts against his own churches teachings. My guess is he is part of that 75%.
Your analysis on general doctrine is sound. I would probably have to agree with you that he has not had to spend a lot of time defending his faith intellectually... probably because he keeps it under his hat most of the time.
And, while most mormons may not be schooled on the truth of their doctrines, they ARE well schooled on the art of persuasion... and Romney illustrates those skills well.
They are true masters of deflecting and re-directing issues to fit their own agenda... while at the same time completely ignoring the challenging question or obvious contradiction... without objection from their challenger.
Being an “ignorant Christian” is no excuse for being part of the fooled masses. I do NOT want him as president simply because he is too vulnerable to deception himself.
Let's pin you down here. You say the Lord tells us not to judge right? Does that include judging others' motives? How about judging another level's of anger and love -- and portraying that for the world to see? How about judging arrogance? Is that OK? Is it OK to judge the level of corruption you've seen in certain business people of a certain religious stripe -- and then stereotype all people of that stripe? Is that OK? What about Muslim terrorists? Do you think it's A-OK to compare Christians to Muslim terrorists and publicly judge them that way?
Well, let's look at the open judging you've done on just this thread alone:
There are rarely, if ever, posts by you guys that aren’t absolutely filled w/ anger. That’s all you guys portray. You never seem to portray love at all. Who would want to bring so much anger into their lives? (Confab's post 290 to reaganaut)
Confab, you seem to have no problem whatsoever judging the internal motives of a number of us – even though we are complete strangers to you…except that you somehow know all about these past convos in FREEPERland even though you’ve been signed up for less than a year. What? Do you have an “anger-meter” and “love-meter” you judge strangers with?
You are a cocky lot. (Confab's post 309 to Godzilla)
Confab, you don’t seem to have any problem publicly judging who you think is cocky.
The worst business dealings I’ve ever had were w/ “devout” Christians. [Confab's post 205 to SeaHawkfan]
Confab, you don’t seem to have any problem publicly judging all devout Christians as being the worst/corrupt business partners/clients/services/etc.
Hear of any reports lately regarding Mormons blowing people up like some Christians & Muslims have been doing in other parts of the world? (Confab's post 196 to SeaHawkfan)
Confab, you don’t have any problem comparing Christians to Muslim bombers.
Confab, what are we to believe? Your standard that you say we're to have re: "judging" others? Or, your consistent examples you keep providing in judging others? Which is it? You can't have both. You either need to walk the walk or talk the talk. If you can't walk the talk, then just stop.
Colofornian, do you not know the difference between judging people by their actions and judging people to hell? The Lord didn’t tell us to not judge anything.
You also seem fixated over my sign up date. You do realize there are probably far more lurkers here that never do sign up than do right? I was one of those for years before I finally pulled the trigger to give voice. Is that really a hard one to comprehend?
Your utterly false assertion that I claimed ALL devout Christians as being the worst/corrupt business partners is contemptible at best, & a lie at worst. The fact that I’ve had bad dealings w/ devout Christians doesn’t translate into ALL! In fact, I’ve had many more good dealings w/ devout Christians than bad. My response to the poster was in kind.
And last but not least, comparing some Christians to Muslims bombers? Do you really think the Christian bombers over in Ireland that have killed innocent men, women, & children are any better than the Muslim bombers? My suspicion is the Lord will find a warm place for both.
You’re right about one thing though, it’s time to stop. My prayers go out to you.
I think you smoked out a re-tread.
That isn't hard to understand as we make judgments concerning our children every day...who their playmates are requires a parents judgement and that means also judging children who are NOT good for our children.
We also make judgments of other people in our workplaces, who can or not be trusted, as well as all areas of our life where other people are involved.
Imagining that making judgments about people because of the danger of their religious practices certainly would be included if not more-so, people make determinations with those beliefs as their foundation for making decisions....even atheists have a foundation from which they base their life.
Mormons have to live the way that they do...and the driving force behind that is "fear". If they aren't "paid up" on their tithing to the church they cannot attend their own children's weddings....and many other "do not's" which keep them in bondage to the 'Extortion' of their leadership.
Read up on the lds properties they own...spending billions of dollars on malls and various other enterprises....while retirees are sucked dry trying to give the last "widows mite" in their purse. Go to any property in Utah going up and see that many of the crew are Mormons....working for Free as their contribution to the leadership....though it's masked as religious giving. The list could go on and on how the leadership steals the very life from these people...and that to get at their wallets...
Mormonism wears an individuals very heart and soul down until they would do most anything to survive from being separated from their families and loved ones. Their indoctrination tactics are fine tuned and work in such a way as to make the individual believe it's all his choice...when in fact it is a bait and switch con game like scientology and other false religions and cults....with the leadership gaining more power and wealth than the members ever have a clue about.
Furthermore they groom individuals for prominent positions....to handle their real-estate and corporate ventures , many who are on board of directors and various other positions of power both nationally and internationally....and this politically as well.
As I have stated before...start looking at the political and business ventures of the LDS church and you will very soon see a huge corporation with tentacles in every aspect of business and investment...and this using billions and billions of dollars....not to mention a fine tuned structure to keep the steady flow of candidates to fill these positions recruited from their colleges...trained and programmed to be under it's leaderships control.
Please understand this is not about a religion...but about a leadership intent on power, wealth and this with an carefully orchestrated political agenda. The religious aspect is simply to recruit individuals for a steady stream of revenue in which to build and carry out their ideology and political agenda...and this on an international scale. Romeny has been groomed by it's leadership to assume the role of President of this country...when we hear him speak he speaks what he's been told to speak...if he gets to Washington he will do what they say without hesititation.
..and that difference is as broad as it is wide...hugely different, and the two hopefully will never meet if we have anything to say about it for it's not only a matter of bringing down "strongholds"..but of 'protecting' those who are ignorant of the enemy of men's souls devices.
Unfortunately today deception grows almost without resistance in the minds and hearts of the uninformed...they are conditioned more and more to believe a lie rather than face the truth and live. So many walk in darkness but cannot perceive the darkness they are in.
Matrix says it well....Romney reminds me of that every time I hear him attempt to speak...it's either canned, and obviously so, or he struggles to get his thoughts together, also apparent. I have seen this behavior and actions in others....there is a "look" if you will about them. He's so heavily indoctrinated I doubt much he says is a thought of his own.
By the way...I also think some of us are on the front lines, holding back the tide, so that God can work His work with the non-believers. After all is said and done we all share in His good work of winning people to His side of the equation....He designed it so.
ewwwwww! Thanks loads for passing that image on....lol.
Just finishing a marathon 8 day workday stretch...solo no less. Can hardly wait til tomorrow afternoon ...it’ll be a done deal and I’m bushed!
My point is that he doesn't seem to be a strict LDS member. As with all religion and all people, 100% agreement on all aspects is not required and Romney appears to be too liberal to be a strict Mormon.
As a child we moved alot for my fathers job. The differences of what, how and “requirements” varied geographically. Its very different in different places. I remember in my teens a woman getting excommunicated for her unrepentant sins (living with another man after her husband left her), while in a different location 2 unmarried cohabitators being included and their children blessed at birth in the sanctuary. Very different actions for essentially the same sins.
So yes I know it very well and as a kid I always wanted answers. If some said the sky was blue, I would want them to prove it otherwise it was whatever color they hated most ;). I was just that way. Most Mormons don't know what the church in Salt Lake believes. The are/were more locally flavored. Combine that with the fact that a majority of people are stupid and lazy, they just don't know many of the off nominal BS of Mormonism and are Christians that just don't know better.
JMHO. Your experiences may lead you to a different conclusion. Either way, I find most Mormons to be good, straight shooters. Unlike them damn Methodists - now there are some wacked out cultish people. Stay on your toes around them.
BARF2!
Please, reaganaut, explain the Doctrine of Original Sin and it’s origins. Be certain to provide Biblical proofs. Also is sin nature the same as Original Sin?
You weren't specific about which bombers -- as if you didn't want to be. 'Twas seemingly in your interests to be vague and surmise that so-called "Christian" bombers were there neck & neck with Muslim terrorists.
Your utterly false assertion that I claimed ALL devout Christians as being the worst/corrupt business partners is contemptible at best, & a lie at worst. The fact that I’ve had bad dealings w/ devout Christians doesn’t translate into ALL!
I'll repeat your earlier words & let you "hang" by them. The insinuation there was quite obvious: The worst business dealings I’ve ever had were w/ “devout” Christians. [Confab's post 205 to SeaHawkfan]
Note, no caveat or qualification. This was your "living testimony" about "devout Christians." Some witness that is!
You also seem fixated over my sign up date. You do realize there are probably far more lurkers here that never do sign up than do right? I was one of those for years before I finally pulled the trigger to give voice. Is that really a hard one to comprehend?
Fixated? When somebody asks you a direct question several times, and you weave, duck & just plain failed to previously respond, who was the one "fixed" upon being unresponsive. And why?
...do you not know the difference between judging people by their actions and judging people to hell? The Lord didn’t tell us to not judge anything.
Who here is judging people to hell? That's actually where I don't want you & Lds to wind up! Ask Szonian when we had FREEPER convos when he was still a Mormon? Did I ever tell him he would be in hell? Am I a prophet? Do I tell people where they will actually wind up? (NO!!!)
So if you can't prove anybody on this thread has actually constructed some "heat hut" with anybody specific's "street address" in hell, then who were you accusing of "judging" on this thread and what "judgments" were they making -- if judging actions is A-OK?
If judging actions are OK, then when we look at any of our own actions/works, or any Mormon actions/works, and we tell you (or fellow trinitarian Christians) that your/their actions aren't ever going to amount enough to get to heaven, that's "OK" then, right?
You do recall that passage in Ephesians 2:8-9: For it is by grace you have been saved,
My Note: Saved -- present-tense/past-tense
through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
My note: How can we get you & Lds to understand that this "isn't from yourselves" -- how much more plain can the apostle Paul get?
it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Nobody earns gifts, Confab. Heaven isn't acquired of ourselves. Otherwise we could boast. We don't know motives...so we never know which good works any of us do are "suspect" in God's eyes. We are not judging the quality of those works. We are saying that no matter how good they are, they will NEVER be enough. We don't earn our way into heaven!
I will defer to you then. Please define:
God
begotten
virgin
‘where Christ took the sins upon himself’
Using the Bible with appropriate verse references and the Hebrew and Greek definitions of the above. No eisegsis now, sister.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.