If SHTF, Could You and Would You Shoot Someone?

SHTF Plan ^ | 10-6-2011 | Gaye Levy

[blam]

If SHTF, Could You and Would You Shoot Someone?

Gaye Levy
October 5th, 2011
Backdoor Survival

The following article has been graciously contributed for your reading pleasure by Gaye Levy, the Survival Woman, of Backdoor Survival.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For most of us, our home is our refuge. There is even an old proverb: a man’s home is his castle. But what happens if there is an intruder? Or worse, an intruder whose intent is bodily harm toward you or your family members regardless of the reason? How would you defend yourself and, more specifically, would you shoot someone? Could you shoot someone?

I have struggled with the answer to these questions and more, because, if there were a collapse of society – a true SHTF situation – there is a strong likelihood that I would be placed in a position to defend myself, my homestead and my stuff. And therein lies the problem. I am not at all sure I could shoot someone. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure I could not.

There, I said it. For in spite of the fact that we have shopped for a suitable weapon for someone of my size and gender, and in spite of the fact I have researched classes and shooting ranges where I could practice and become proficient, I personally do not think I could not do it.

And you know what? My informal poll of others – both men and women – has told me that about 50% of us – if we dig down deep – feel the same way. I could not shoot with the intent to harm.

Sure, I know that shooting someone is not the question. The question really is “Can you safely defend yourself and your family against a life threatening situation or attack?” And if the answer is “I don’t know” or even “No”, then you have a problem. I know I do.

From the way I see it, we have three basic issues:

* What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves?

* Will I end up in jail or prison for exercising my right to defend myself and my family?

* How do I defend myself especially if I am uncomfortable around guns?

* What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves?

In my mind, you are justified in using force – lethal or otherwise – against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person. So by my definition, someone stealing my stuff does not qualify. Neither would revenge for something that happened yesterday.

Breaking this down, this means that the threat would have to be now, not yesterday and not tomorrow. “I am going to come and get you tomorrow” would not qualify by my definition.

Will I end up in jail or prison for exercising my right to defend myself and my family?

Good question. The answer is maybe. There is something called the Castle Doctrine that dictates, on a state by state basis, the circumstances where you can legally defend yourself from bodily harm. Notice that I said bodily harm and not destruction or theft of property.

Castle doctrine derives from English Common Law, and broadly affirms that the lawful occupants of a dwelling has the right to use force, up to and including deadly force, to protect against attack. Depending on individual state law, Castle Doctrine generally applies only if you have a “reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm” to yourself or to others.

Like I said, Castle Doctrine varies from state to state and some states have something called “Stand Your Ground” instead. Still, as a generalization, protections offered include the following:

Reinforced right to use deadly force: You have the right to use deadly force if you have an immediate and reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. In some cases, the “reasonable fear” is presumed if someone attempts to make a forcible and unlawful entry into your residence or, in some states, vehicle.

No duty to retreat: The laws generally reinforce your right to “stand your ground” when attacked, rather than having to attempt to flee, provided you reasonably believe force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury and provided you are lawfully in the place you occupy.

Immunity from criminal prosecution: In cases of justifiable use of deadly force, police or other law enforcement authorities may generally investigate but not arrest you unless they find probable cause that the force used was unlawful.

Immunity from civil action: In cases of justifiable use of deadly force, a plaintiff (e.g. the family of the perpetrator) is barred from civil action and may be required to pay attorney’s fees and court costs from bringing such action against you.

How do I defend myself especially if I am uncomfortable around guns?

Okay, here are the choices that I have come up with in no particular order:

* Chemical Sprays (pepper spray , bear spray, wasp killer)

* Martial arts

* Firearms (shotgun, rifle, pistol)

* Battering devices (batons, fireplace pokers, baseball bats)

* Stun Guns

* Knives * Avoidance (hiding, running away)

I do want to note that most self defense instructors will say that avoiding, or running away or even hiding from the danger or confrontation is by far the best thing to do. Unfortunately, that may not always be a viable and safe option.

For me, having a combination of these self-defense mechanisms is best. This will allow both Survival Husband and myself to choose the very best option particular to the threat and our personal comfort lever (again “to shoot” or “not to shoot”).

Summary

Ask yourself if you are ready for the chaos created by SHTF, in whatever form it might take. Also think about putting together a “SHTF Self Defense and Intruder Safety Plan”.

Here are some tips to get started:

1. The first step is to talk to your spouse, partner and/or other family members about your individual feelings a toward guns, knives and other self defense weapons. This is not the time for BS. It is best to be honest with yourself now, before the need to defend yourself is called in to action.

2. Examine some what-if scenarios and think about what additional information you need in order to become comfortable with your plan and with a possible “shoot” or don’t shoot” decision.

3. Invest in the gear and the skills you know you will use and then learn how to use them. The gear and skills that you select for one family member may be different than those chosen for another family member. One may choose a firearm and the other may choose a combination of chemical sprays and martial arts.

4. Respect the skills and mindset of your family members or others in your household. There is no right and no wrong.

5. Educate yourself regarding the Castle Doctrine Laws in your state and use them as a guideline in formulating your plan. Keep in mind, however, that if there is a SHTF situation, there may no longer be a government so any existing laws or rules may not apply.

The Final Word

The more you think about these things in advance, the more confident you will become in your ability to make a good decision under stress when defending yourself and your loved ones is the only choice your have.

To learn more about the Castle Doctrine Laws specific to your state, visit this link: The Castle Doctrine.

Enjoy your next adventure through common sense and thoughtful preparation!

Gaye

[dynachrome]

“a little help from 7.62x54R”

I settled on a mosin 91/59 carbine as my basic “backup, will work in all situations” gun. Fancier guns may break down and are harder to fix. JB weld will fix just about anything on a Mosin!

[Recon Dad]

“Whether to shoot someone once is a moral and legal question. How many times to shoot them, is a tactical question.”

[Recon Dad]

I am not a sheep . . . I am neither weak nor afraid. If you try to harm me the consequences of those actions rest solely on your shoulders

[300winmag]

And my answer is yes, without blinking an eye, because that type of trouble usually don't come by itself.

I'd have to think twice about that as I was putting in a fresh magazine. Seriously, though, I do NOT expect to be the first person put in that situation when TSHTF. I refuse to be either predator or prey. But I'd check the late predator to see if he has anything useful to donate to my survival plan before he's hauled away.

[DCBryan1]

Heh....already been there. The liberals, crazies, and the entitlement class won’t be the first person I’ve killed.

[MrB]

Everyone needs to keep in mind, even if TSHTF,

that order and government and the judicial system will most likely be restored,

and questions will probably be asked about your use of deadly force,

so, stay “above board” and don’t try to hide what you did.

[MrB]

Dogs are definitely a good security layer, as they provide deterrence and notification all in one package.

[greene66]

No qualms whatsoever.

[mountainlion]

7.62x25,223, 308.....

[albionin]

According to my code it would be profoundly immoral not to shoot. If someone comes into my home and they do not immediately leave when commanded to they are a threat. I would not be required by my code at least to try and figure out why they were there or give them the benefit of the doubt. Not to shoot would be to place their interests above my own and that would be immoral. Furthermore, in a true SHTF situation that zone of deadly force would extend to my property outside of the home as well. The police would be spread too thin and they would also be protecting their own families most likely. In that situation my property such as vehicles and tools may mean the difference between survival and not surviving. I would shoot to protect property. In a true societal breakdown there would be no court system to appeal to for redress.

[Redleg Duke]

Better to be jusged by twelve than carried by six!

[DCBryan1]

RE# 36. Amen.

If your shoot is morally right and legally justified, you will make terms with it easily and actually be able to sleep at night. Knowing you'll go to your maker innocent is a good feeling.

If for one moment, the shoot was not morally right, or legally justified (and you get away with it), you will live with deep, dark demons the rest of your life. I know a couple of guys that question their shoot, and I NEVER want the hauntings that they have.

[pyx]

*** -=] IF [=- *** the SHTF, one scenerio that might be considered is this;

The LEFT often uses children for their political and other gains. The LEFT would not hesitate to use children to steal for them. If you are prepared to shoot and kill someone, would you shoot and kill a SEVEN YEAR OLD child ?

Please note: Looking through a scope and turning a thinking, breathing, living, walking, real human being's head into bloody mass of pulp, will actually induce vomiting. The real thing is a tad different from fantasy video games. In war, a seven year old will kill you just as dead as a 28 year old.

[stylin19a]

In less than a heartbeat

[arrdon]

And, until everyone stands shoulder-to-shoulder and loudly asserts that we WILL, the predators, here and abroad, will continue to test the waters.

You damned-well better make up your mind that your life was given to you TO PROTECT. It was given to you with an expectation of RESPECT. If you have no self respect, don’t expect the predator to respect it.

[grobdriver]

would you shoot someone? Could you shoot someone?

Abso-damn-lutely.

[DCBryan1]

In war, a seven year old will kill you just as dead as a 28 year old.

My THT leader (Tactical HUMINT Team) shot and killed a 10 year old who lit a dr. Pepper can and threw it at his dismounted patrol in Iraq. The dud IED was disarmed and the shoot was justified in every way, but when he got back stateside, he always regretted shooting that kid. I gave him hell for hesitating to shoot when the mob was unruly and he saw the kid light it.

One less crazy murdering Mooselimb IMHO. I hope he sleeps good at night. I do.

[concerned about politics]

Do you already have the poison? They're not going to let you 'go to the store.'

Deadly nightshade grows wild around here. It not only has greens - it has berries.

Lye, strong enough to burn the flesh right off your body withing seconds can be made out of hard wood ash from your woodstove. It looks like water.

[Lockbox]

* What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves? - PROTECT LIFE, FAMILY AND PROPERTY

* Will I end up in jail or prison for exercising my right to defend myself and my family? - SEE ANSWER TO # 1

* How do I defend myself especially if I am uncomfortable around guns? - LEARN TO BECOME COMFORTABLE, BEST ARMED WIN

* What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves? - SEE ANSWER TO # 1

[MrB]

Why would you think someone would shoot a kid for stealing if he didn’t represent a threat to your life or family?

Now, if you went to stop a “kid” from stealing, and he pulled a gun or presented some other credible physical threat that you couldn’t handle in another way, then you’d have to.

But no 7 yr old kid is going to get by a decent sized dog.