Posted on 09/19/2011 2:04:14 PM PDT by tedw
With legislation pending both in the U.S. Congress and the Michigan House of Representatives to require employers to use a new federal immigration database, even conservative and Tea Party groups are speaking out against the idea.
(Excerpt) Read more at michiganmessenger.com ...
e-Verify needs to be seen in context. The context has little or nothing to do with illegal aliens, and everything to do with expanding federal control over all facets of our lives. I might add that even if an employer doesn’t use e-Verify, he must submit an Employment Eligibility Verification (I-9) Form, which does the same thing.
Take every alleged value of e-Verify and apply it to REAL ID, the national identification and drivers license card. Many States refuse it, because they are the ones who would have to pay for it.
Now apply those values to the HIPPA Act, which makes medical records both electronic and accessible to any number of people and organization, public and private, previously prohibited from viewing them without a court order.
Now take all those values and apply them to the New Hire Reporting Program, which first compares the information submitted against current state child support files to locate parents. Then the agency promptly passes the new hire information to the National Directory of New Hires, a component of the Federal Parent Locator Service within the Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement.
And don’t forget the mandatory W-2 and W-4 forms to the IRS.
And also submit information about employees to OSHA, FLSA, EEOC and FMLA. All mandatory.
And, of course, all the biometric data you must now submit to the government to get a passport, that you didn’t used to need to travel to either Canada or Mexico.
Bottom line: It isn’t about keeping illegal aliens out. It’s all about keeping US citizens in, and under control. Especially the 2m or more that don’t want to be part of “the system”, even if it means living in poverty and working under the table. They hate the dehumanization that much.
You must have written that post 59 before you read my post 57. I’m not against deportation or your right to work.
Therefore, I must not have been talking to YOU anyway.
Here’s my post 57, oh dear one who doesn’t want government interference in his life:
***
Oh, as a PS to that last post, please understand I am not against the E-verify program and think it would definitely help “auto-deport” some illegal aliens.
Here is what the ones disagreeing have mentioned that does concern me.
1. Creates a de facto national I.D. System – even for citizen
I’m not positive this would be a problem, but as a Christian, I’m always going to be concerned when you have a blanket federal ID. It just seems too easily to manipulate everyone’s lives when you have something like that. And I do believe that would be a legitimate concern for any conservative.
Just wanted you to know I was not standing in opposition of the E-verify idea itself.
And I just saw a better description of my concern for the e-verify program in post 60 which was written by yefragetuwrabrumuy.
Here is what yefragetuwrabrumuy was concerned about as well. It definitely hits my concern.
(yefragetuwrabrumuy) e-Verify needs to be seen in context. The context has little or nothing to do with illegal aliens, and everything to do with expanding federal control over all facets of our lives.
Could you explain hoe e-verify is not good for the economy?
Oh that’s funny!
Hey yefragetuwrabrumuy, Can you pass me those McDonald’s french fries please? :)
Does asking this make a hate-filled xenophobic bigot?
ping to post 67.
1. Obama supports it which should be a massive red flag.
2. Agriculture, hospitality and manufacturing small businesses claim it'll have a negative economic impact.
Business leaders say mandatory ‘E-Verify’ plan would harm small businesses (2011)
We have converted our passports and visas to biometrics to make them harder to falsify.
An Electronic Passport is the same as a traditional passport with the addition of a small integrated circuit (or “chip”) embedded in the back cover. The chip stores:
The same data visually displayed on the data page of the passport;
A biometric identifier in the form of a digital image of the passport photograph, which will facilitate the use of face recognition technology at ports-of-entry;
The unique chip identification number; and
A digital signature to protect the stored data from alteration.
And? Can they still be falsified? Are they any more protected than the ones that came before it? They can and they are being forged.
So much for that convenient government excuse. It's rather a shame that people swallowed it so readily. All the government did with those new changes was make it harder to spot fakes because the forger has to create an increasingly more sophisticated 'document' which is harder to detect as a forgery.
Plain and simple...this is a crap bill IMO. It could have been much more concise to perform a very specific function. It's too verbose and too vulnerable to later manipulation by regulation. (consider the EPA's current actions with changing regulations as a precursor) And what was once voluntary may become mandatory. That's a scary thought because even I advocate making E-Verify mandatory.
Ultimately the question becomes..."Just how much information should the government be allowed to collect on it's Citizens?"
Besides, why do the Citizens of America continually have to pay the price for the federal government's inability to do its job? This is just one more case.
I've said my piece.
There’s a government program for that.
A government program for my McDonald’s french fries? Well they don’t leave any rock unturned when it comes to THIS administration. LOL
I'm concerned about where this could go. What precedent could it set for the feds and how will it be exploited and abused in the service of the statist?
That is my same concern.
yefragetuwrabrumuy and I were, in fact, pointing out what happens as the federal government robs us of more and more freedom.
For instance, what would happen if the federal government got involved with our food consumption.
I like your suggestion that states could decide whether to e-verify or not since businesses are licensed by the state. That is something we should be looking at, it seems.
Yes, they are more difficult to be forged. And it is easier to track people entering and leaving the US. 40% of the 12 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country come here legally and overstay their visas.
So much for that convenient government excuse. It's rather a shame that people swallowed it so readily. All the government did with those new changes was make it harder to spot fakes because the forger has to create an increasingly more sophisticated 'document' which is harder to detect as a forgery.
LOL. How can anyone argue with logic like that? I guess we shouldn't do anything to protect our passports, money, etc. because the forgery will be easier to detect. LOL.
Plain and simple...this is a crap bill IMO. It could have been much more concise to perform a very specific function. It's too verbose and too vulnerable to later manipulation by regulation. (consider the EPA's current actions with changing regulations as a precursor) And what was once voluntary may become mandatory. That's a scary thought because even I advocate making E-Verify mandatory. Ultimately the question becomes..."Just how much information should the government be allowed to collect on it's Citizens?"
Or how much information should we collect on illegal aliens who take American jobs, depress wages, commit crimes that kill and injure tens of thousands of citizens, and result in more than a $100 billion a year being spent on their education, health care, and imprisonment?
And how naive are you about how bills are written and passed? Without some of that language you disdain, it is doubtful the bill could be passed. As someone who is deeply involved in the immigration issue and lobbies on the Hill and in Richmond, I have specific problems with this bill related to the role of the state in enforcing immigration laws. The SCOTUS decision upholding the 2007 AZ law that mandates E-verify for all businesses has sent shockwaves throughout the establishment, especially the Chamber of Commerce.
This bill is being supported by the Chamber because they are afraid that many more states will emulate the AZ bill. They would rather have a national law that supercedes state law, i.e., essentially neutering the AZ law and other tough state laws. This bill will not be enforced by the federal government like the AZ law. Steve King is trying to amend it to protect the states rights to have tough laws and enforcement. Some good immigration organizations have decided to back the bill despite the weaknesses believing that having a national law will get E-Verify into states like NY and CA. Kris Kobach, the author of the AZ law as well as AZ 1070 has reservations as well.
Besides, why do the Citizens of America continually have to pay the price for the federal government's inability to do its job? This is just one more case. I've said my piece.
The American people are paying a terrible price now. We are losing this country thru our existing legal immigration policies and to illegal immigration. Cheap exploitable labor is being supported by businesses to help their bottom line. But the real costs are being paid by the taxpayer in blood and treasure.
The American people are paying a terrible price now.
Well...DUH! After all these years you and Congress are finally getting a clue?
We are losing this country thru our existing legal immigration policies and to illegal immigration.
And you're counting on the people who created the problem to fix it? The deck chairs will simply be rearranged and you still won't be able to find a lifeboat.
Cheap exploitable labor is being supported by businesses to help their bottom line.
Helping their bottom line is what businesses are supposed to do. Besides, that comment sounds like either Bobby Boucher's Mom (Businesses are the Devil) or Democrat talking points. I can't make up my mind which.
Now, if you would have said "Cheap exploitable illegal alien labor..." I might agree with you. If I can convince somebody to legally work for $8.00/hr instead of $12.00/hr is that wrong?
Furthermore, if businesses are hiring illegal aliens as workers then don't you think that enforcing the laws already on the books would suffice in the place of more laws that will not be enforced any better than the laws already in place? This bill is just 'kick the can down the road', 'feel good' lawmaking with the added twist of the nasty aroma of 'watch out down the road'.
But the real costs are being paid by the taxpayer in blood and treasure.
You're slick, I'll give you that. You've got it all down pat, what with all of the emotional plays and heart tugging. I'm tearing up.
Americans have stoically sacrificed their blood and treasure for decades because they had faith in their elected officials so that's nothing new.
The real costs will be paid by our grandchildren. We'll be dead and gone, they'll be enslaved or imprisoned.
“Bottom line: It isn’t about keeping illegal aliens out. “
Complete nonsense. You are detached from reality. Why do you think the Democrats in the Calif. Legislature just voted an opt out for e-verify. Its because it IS effective and will stop illegal immigration.
I dont know which is worse: liberal democrats, or paranoid stupid conservatives.
Hiring an illegal alien is not an essential liberty. It is theft backed up by government coercion.
Nobody said it was. That's a straw man.
The essential liberty in this case is not having to get permission from the feds to work and earn your daily bread; just because they won't do their job and secure our borders and enforce the mountain of laws that are already on the books.
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