Advice on dealing with child protective services

My brain | 9-11-11 | Bugswol

[BUGSWOL]

My girlfriend has a friend in Washington State, who is a bit odd, Christian, home school type. While they are not not the normal standard people the government would like us to me, she assures me that they are in fact good people who love their children. The also adopted a couple of children from Ethiopia. One of those children died under strange circumstances, so naturally it was investigated. That is perfectly understandable.

It turns out that the child had some sort of tropical malady that led to rapid weight loss loss, erratic behavior and an untimely death. Now this is where it gets bad. Despite the death being ruled to have been the result of natural causes, their other children have been removed form the home and kept form the parents by child protective services. These children who have been home schooled their entire lives and fed on a diet of healthy natural foods are now in foster homes being fed junk and sent to public schools. The children were tested before enrollment and all of them tested at least 3 grade levels above their chronological age. Sounds like some awful parents doesn't it.

Now they have been told by their court appointed lawyers not to say a word or make waves of any kind even though they are regularly being slandered in the press there.

I am chomping at the bit to post some of the articles here and encourage freepers to let the CPS working in Washington State know what we think, but my girlfriend says no, because they haven't asked. I am of the opinion that if we sit on our hands their kids will just quietly be taken away permanently and they will move on to taking kids away from parents who do other odd things like vote Republican and believe in God.

[vox_freedom]

A surprisingly balanced news article, considering the source, with more info:

KUOW transcript

[vox_freedom]

The above article was published prior to the murder charges being filed against the parents this week...

[vox_freedom]

This my final post on this sad topic, and to correct the record that you were wrong about and failed to admit. The coroner never changed his report of this young girl dying of hypothermia. She was also abused, indeed, tortured by beatings, witholding of food, and deplorable living conditions. The parents are now charged with murder. The full Sheriff's department report may be found here.

Skagit County Sheriff Department probable cause investigation

Lastly, I want to declare to you and all who read this that you are a TROLL to come onto Free Republic and attempt to defend parents such as this. You did so with lies and deception. If you didn't know the truth, as you should have since you claimed inside information, you learned it since with the above responses.

Since your last post, however, you ran like the TROLL you are. Instead of admitting errors in judgement, including calling me a Janet Reno type, you ran for the shadows.

We don't need TROLLS like you who defend child abusers on Free Republic then become tyrants against those who post the truth.
Be gone.

[butterdezillion]

Being the expert on coincidence-ology, you surely know that it is caused by the government, which causes all those coincidences (which you call “red flags”) many, many times every day in the USA.

;)

Only a crazy conspiracy-monger would think that those coincidences could actually mean something deserved investigation...

[CodeToad]

Stay out of it before you screw it up for them and they have to answer for your actions too. There is always more to the story in these matters and rarely are those issues discussed with a friend. The wife worked many of these types of cases, and still does in another respect, and often the real meat of the story is never publicly known.

[Domalais]

. . .

Did you really just raise a 30 month old thread from the dead so that you could reply to me? Okay, well then:






You seem to be having some difficulty differentiating between evidence and coincidence. Would you like help?


Evidence:
The fact that this girl died of hypothermia outside her house is evidence.

The fact that she lost 30 pounds is evidence.


Coincidence:
The fact that she was found dead on 12 May, the same day that Charles Lindberg, Jr., was found dead, is a coincidence. It does not mean that the killer of the Lindberg baby struck again 79 years later.

The fact that she was found outside, which is where squirrels live, does not mean that a squirrel killed her.


I hope I've been helpful.

[butterdezillion]

At what point are there enough “coincidences” that it warrants further investigation?

I mentioned some “coincidences”:

Breitbart dropped dead less than 5 hours after affirming Sheriff Joe’s evidence.

Less than 12 hours before Arpaio was going to make that evidence public.

On a subject that the media had already been threatened with their lives. Mike Zullo has confirmed that at least one media person fled the country in fear for her life and that of her child.

The same day as Rush Limbaugh got a package referring to 2 famous assassinations.

The stories about Breitbart’s health changed over time (I didn’t say this but will add here that the coroner confirmed immediately - before there was any talk about this being related to Arpaio - that Breitbart hadn’t seen a doctor for at least a year, and there was no prescription or street drug in his system at time of death. His father-in-law was initially reported to say he knew of no heart problems for Andrew. Once the questions arose over the timing of this death, the stories changed).

The technician at the coroner’s office was violently ill with arsenic poisoning a couple days before Breitbart’s autopsy was due to come out. Doctors supposedly sent him home even after he said he thought he had poisoned, because they supposedly concluded that he might have a PERFORATED BOWEL - a fatal condition if left untreated as they supposedly deliberately did. All this according to the LAPD, which could have easily traced the poisoner because those levels of arsenic create symptoms about 30 minutes after being ingested. They could have traced his steps and found out who did it. But they wouldn’t. Instead they tried initially denying anything suspect with the technician’s death by saying that doctors admitted to criminal medical negligence by releasing a guy they thought had a fatal but treatable condition that was already at a critical stage.

The coroner put out an autopsy which gave no clue of ever having looked for the only clinical sign of an assassination of the type that had been discussed as potentially being used on Breitbart: a small red entry hole.

And the media STILL hasn’t reported the actual evidence that Arpaio presented at that press conference that was buried by the story of Breitbart’s death.

What more needs to be added to all that, before you would consider it worthy of investigation?

[butterdezillion]

BTW, who do you think sent live explosives to Joe Arpaio, and if you had gone as far as the evidence trail could initially take you, what reasoning would you use to look for potential suspects? Would you consider it mere “coincidence” if you knew of somebody who had motive, means, and opportunity to do this deed, or would you consider those essential components of sorting out evidence and following leads?

[butterdezillion]

I’ll reply here where the topic is real-world epistemology and clues that are legitimate in an investigation.

In the case of this child who died, it was determined that the cause of death was a tropical disease. Yet you considered the other suspicious “coincidences” to be enough for a deeper investigation.

In the Breitbart case, there were a heckuva lot more bizarre/unusual circumstances - including in the coroner’s office, the doctor’s office, and the LAPD. In the end, the coroner said that he had checked the body for injuries and noted none. What he should have been looking for if he wanted to dispel the suspicions was a little red entry hole like a bug bite. If he looked for that, why in the world wouldn’t he report it, since the purpose of the autopsy was to find the real cause of death and put to bed any suspicions of wrong-doing? If this guy really checked for that and found nothing, but didn’t document and report those findings, then he is too incompetent to have the job he has.

Just to make sure you’re not my godson, could you tell me whether your wife’s name is Dana and whether she is expecting a baby next month?

[butterdezillion]

Also significant is that the coroner had the clothes Breitbart was wearing at the time he died. If he had found a little round hole that could have been mistaken for a bug bite, he could have checked the location of the hole with the cloth of the clothes that covered that area, and could have seen whether there was a similar hole in the cloth.

Why wouldn’t he check for any of that, given the rumors that were swirling? Why check for circumcision but not for something vital to the question at hand? Is the guy incompetent?

60-80% blockage doesn’t usually cause a heart attack, from the stuff I’ve heard from my husband being a pastor and dealing with folks with health issues. I could be wrong, but it seems like it would have to be a sizeable clot to cause a heart attack under those circumstances. And IIRC the report, as anaylzed by a doctor here, seemed more consistent with an attack caused by blood chemistry affecting the timing of the heart than by a blot clot. Somebody can correct me if I’m mistaken.

In any event, this coroner was either incompetent, or something else screwy was going on. Like there was screwy stuff going on with the doctors and the LAPD. And - oh - did I mention that the coroner’s colleague had been poisoned by arsenic in a way very visible to those at the coroner’s office just a couple days before the autopsy came out?

[Domalais]

In the case of this child who died, it was determined that the cause of death was a tropical disease.

No. The cause of death was hypothermia. The tropical disease thing was a lie.



Just to make sure you’re not my godson, could you tell me whether your wife’s name is Dana and whether she is expecting a baby next month?

If I answer without addressing your question, is that evidence that I really am your godson? If so, purple monkey dishwasher.

[butterdezillion]

Your manner has already shown me that you are not my godson. My godson was homeschooled and studied logic. He enjoys digging through issues and does so without having to misrepresent what his challenger has said.

[vox_freedom]

The criminal trial is now in its eleventh day and more and more evidence has been presented as to what happened to this little Ethiopian girl. There will probably be a final verdict in the next week or so.

The following links are presented merely to assist in clarifying facts for the record....
PS Meanwhile BUGSWOL hasn't appeared since his earlier postings defending the parents and has evidently left Free Republic as the troll he is.

Jurors hear shocking details in child murder trial

Girl's autopsy shows signs of beatings, hypothermia, malnutrition

Boy testifies, says parents spanked adopted brother, sister more

Kids testify in parents murder and abuse trial

[vox_freedom]

Jury verdict in. Guilty.
My personal view is that this is a tragedy on all levels. An innocent child dead, a family blown apart, parents now declared guilty on numerous counts. May God have mercy.

Link to news story re: jury outcome:
Mother guilty of homicide in death of adopted Ethiopian girl

News story text:

Reporters in the courtroom are tweeting:
Larry Williams not found guilty of homicide by abuse.
Jury was not able to reach a verdict on this count.
Larry Williams guilty of first-degree manslaughter.
Larry Williams guilty of first-degree assault of a child.
Carri Williams guilty of homicide by abuse.
Carri Williams guilty of first-degree assault of a child.

This is my final post on this FR thread and it will, hopefully, close it out unless there is something further posted that causes me to respond.

[Domalais]

A heartbreaking summary of the case:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/hana_williams_the_tragic_death_of_an_ethiopian_adoptee_and_how_it_could.html