More federal agencies implicated in gun-trafficking controversy (FBI, DEA, Oh My...)

The Los Angeles Times ^ | July 6, 2011, 3:27 p.m. | Richard A. Serrano

[Smogger]

Reporting from Washington— The embattled head of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has told congressional investigators that the FBI and Drug Enforcement Administration kept his agency "in the dark" about their dealings with Mexican drug cartel figures linked to a controversial gun-trafficking investigation.

Kenneth Melson, the ATF's acting director, has been under pressure to resign over the agency's handling of the gun-trafficking operation, known as Fast and Furious. But in two days of meetings with investigators, Melson disclosed that other law enforcement agencies had a connection to the operation. His statements sharply ratcheted up the affair, and strongly suggested that House and Senate investigations, as well as an internal review by the Justice Department, will widen.

"Our investigation has clearly expanded," one source close to the investigation said Wednesday. "We know now it was not something limited to just a small group of ATF agents in Arizona."

[RummyChick]

[archy]

What's up with Mueller at the FBI? Didn't he recently agree to stay on and not retire?

Bobby Three Sticks is not loved by many within the Bureau. Just after Obama virtually begged congress for a two-year extension to Director Mueller's ten year reign- he's the 6th FBI director, and will be second only to J. Edgar Hoover when he retires- the FBI *suddenly* gets their big break in the search for Top Ten Fugitive Whitey Bulger- which may yet become a nasty embarassment for the FBI. And any baby agent can tell you that rule one at the Bureay, is Don't Embarass the Bureau.

Add in the continued failure to bring forth an indictable suspect in the AmericaThrax anthrax terrorism investigation, and Mueller has real problems.

Indeed, the reason for Mueller's retention may be Obama's fear that any attempted appointment of a new director would be subject to Senate investigation and approval, which may very well not be granted with the one-two punch of the Gunwalker Scandal and potential charges against the BATFE Acting Director that could result in sworn testimony against the Attorney General. Or higher....

[archy]

In other words..business as usual..find a way to overthrow a government?

So, is the CIA involved in this as well???

Potentially. But if'n I was a bettin' feller, I'd bet more on the State Department.

Press Statement

Philip J. Crowley
Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Public Affairs

Washington, DC

January 21, 2011

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton will travel to Mexico at the invitation of Foreign Secretary Patricia Espinosa on Monday, January 24, 2011.

Secretary of State Clinton and Secretary Espinosa will meet in Guanajuato to discuss key issues that the United States and Mexico face individually and as partners, including joint cooperation to combat organized crime, strengthening the competitiveness of our two economies, modernizing the border between our countries and advancing the global climate change agenda after the Cancun Summit.

The United States and Mexico share many opportunities and challenges and work collaboratively on a wide range of issues. This visit is an opportunity to reinforce the close relations between the two nations and to identify common objectives and strategies to ensure greater security and well-being for the citizens of both countries.

Mierda Initiative

[RummyChick]

Don’t you think they have to end this pretty quickly. Obama doesn’t want this to spill over into his election cycle.

It’s coming to a head. Melson is off the reservation..trying to keep himself from going down.

Holder will be resigning soon.

I think it is telling that Holder suddenly dropped the CIA investigations.

You don’t go to war with the CIA. You can try..but you will pay. I think we have seen that many times in the past - even if ..looking at it from the outside..you don’t quite realize the CIA had a hand in it.

[Nuc 1.1]

They intended to blame gun shops and gun shows for this and thereby abridge the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. And they almost got away with it.

[Zeppo]

But I didn't like this paragraph:

That was my take, too, in another FR thread about this letter.

But it seems that Issa and Grassley have not gotten this far by being pushovers, and so I will hope that this is also part of the "strategery"...

[Dick Bachert]

While swearing they’re both pure as nuns,
seems Obozo and Holder ran guns.
Down to old Mexico
did these firearms go
and their hubristic plot simply stuns.
Dick Bachert

[okie01]

"Our investigation has clearly expanded," one source close to the investigation said Wednesday. "We know now it was not something limited to just a small group of ATF agents in Arizona."

Gee, whiz.

Would the President, the Attorney General and the Secretary of State have all been mindlessly promoting the actions of a "a small group of ATF agents in Arizona"?

[Oceander]

That letter was a 16 inch shell over the DOJ’s bow. Issa and Grassley are playing a very complicated game of chess with the Obama (mal)administration, not a game of checkers, and that requires, to paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt, that you talk softly and carry a big stick.

Also, the fact of the matter is that Issa and Grassley don’t want DOJ or the other conspirators in the Obama (mal)administration to figure out their gameplan, so they use innuendo and “gentle reminders” and take the public approach of being conciliatory in order to keep DOJ and the rest off guard, drive up their anxiety and panic - which will almost inevitably draw more rats away from the ship - and will turn up the infighting by playing on their paranoia and their fear, and fear feeds on uncertainty, not certainty. If Issa and Grassley played their hands too straight right now, they would give the game away and DOJ would know precisely what they have to attack and how they have to attack it.

No, this was a very skillfully written letter that is almost certainly driving the political operatives in the DOJ nuts with fear.

[okie01]

Can anyone explain what they possibly hoped to accomplish with this exercise?

Actually, it's pretty obvious. They hoped to undermine the Second Amendment.

Several months ago, Obama, Holder and Hillary all raised the concern that the border needed to be closed -- so as to keep all those uncontrolled weapons purchased at gun shows and gun dealers from being shipped into Mexico.

That was obviously the beginning of a contrived move to undermine the 2nd Amendment -- since they knew that the USG was the actual source of the "uncontrolled weaponry".

This constitutes a provable conspiracy to subvert the Bill of Rights -- originating at the very pinnacle of the government.

Unprecedented. And monstrous.

[El Cid]

Thanks.
I hope your assessment is correct.
If Issa and Grassley need to play things close to the vest (for the good reasons you mention) -- I'd still want to see others loudly call that the Holder gang (ATF and/or DOJ) were actively complicit in murder.

[RummyChick]

I am not buying Melson’s story. He knew.

So did Obama, DOJ, FBI, CIA and likely State Department...and the NSA didn’t know???

[Winged Hussar]

[RummyChick]

One of the more disgusting things about this tragedy is this:

All of these departments KNEW that those weapons were getting in the hands of the Drug Cartels and other various criminals...and yet...border agents had to fire bean bags.

Brian Terry had a bean bag. He was killed with guns supplied by the US Government to known criminals.

Brian Terry’s death is not in vain. Perhaps none of this would have come out if not for Terry’s death.

There is a certain satisfaction that Melson testified in secret on July 4th , our Independence Day.

[Oceander]

I am not buying Melson’s story. He knew.

So did Obama, DOJ, FBI, CIA and likely State Department...and the NSA didn’t know???

He probably did; but what matters is that he came in from the cold first, and Issa and Grassley are going to let him flatter himself publicly because it makes him happy and it makes the others who've not been cooperating unhappy.

It sounds like it's a real-life version of the prisoner's dilemma. Here's a restatement of it taken from the wikipedia article on The Prisoner's Dilemma:

A classic example of the prisoner's dilemma (PD) is presented as follows:

Two suspects are arrested by the police. The police have insufficient evidence for a conviction, and, having separated the prisoners, visit each of them to offer the same deal. If one testifies for the prosecution against the other (defects) and the other remains silent (cooperates), the defector goes free and the silent accomplice receives the full one-year sentence. If both remain silent, both prisoners are sentenced to only one month in jail for a minor charge. If each betrays the other, each receives a three-month sentence. Each prisoner must choose to betray the other or to remain silent. Each one is assured that the other would not know about the betrayal before the end of the investigation. How should the prisoners act?

As that article summarizes:

In the classic form of this game, cooperating is strictly dominated by defecting, so that the only possible equilibrium for the game is for all players to defect. No matter what the other player does, one player will always gain a greater payoff by playing defect. Since in any situation playing defect is more beneficial than cooperating, all rational players will play defect, all things being equal.

Melson defected first, so he wins the prize.

[TLI]

"The evidence we have gathered raises the disturbing possibility that the Justice Department not only allowed criminals to smuggle weapons but that taxpayer dollars from other agencies may have financed those engaging in such activities."

Oh puu-lease keep this coming!

We could do some tall hunting and fishing on this rascal...

.

[RummyChick]

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/07/el-mamito-all-our-weapons-are-bought-in.html

If any of you speak Spanish..here is an infamous player in the Mexican war...
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/07/el-mamito-all-our-weapons-are-bought-in.html

“We are unaware of what’s happening but you can deduce that if it’s almost impossible for us to buy weapons and bring them in our trunks and they (Gulf Cartel) can they can bring them in freely, with no problems, well there has to be an arrangement, one can deduce that they have a pact with the government, I don’t know.“

[Marty62]

Well one thing about this bunch in DC, they will turn on each other like rats getting off a sinking ship.

[teletech]

And what will come of this in the end? I bet ABOSOLUTELY NOTHING!

[OldNewYork]

It would be nice if this investigation eventually brought down the entire Oval Office occupant’s edifice before November... of 2011. Impeach now. Biden ‘11. Live the dream - a one year Biden presidency.