Posted on 06/18/2011 12:15:44 AM PDT by balch3
PHOENIX (ABP) – The president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary said June 15 that Southern Baptists need to repent of a “form of homophobia” that keeps gays and lesbians out of their churches.
Albert Mohler responded during his report to the Southern Baptist Convention to a question from Peter Lumpkins, a Southern Baptist blogger, about whether comments attributed to him in a March 24 Christian Science Monitor article were accurate.
Writer Jonathan Merritt, a Southern Baptist minister and well-known social critic, quoted Mohler as saying “We’ve lied about the nature of homosexuality and have practiced what can only be described as a form of homophobia,” and “We’ve used the choice language when it is clear that sexual orientation is a deep inner struggle and not merely a matter of choice.”
Mohler said at the convention “there is no way anyone in fair mindedness can be confused about what I believe about homosexuality,” because he has written more than 200 articles about it, but that “the reality is that we as Christian churches have not done well on this issue.”
“Evangelicals, thankfully, have failed to take the liberal trajectory of lying about homosexuality and its sinfulness,” Mohler said. “We know that the Bible clearly declares – not only in isolated verses but in the totality of its comprehensive presentation – the fact that homosexuality not only is not God’s best for us, as some try to say, but it is sin.”
“But we as evangelicals have a very sad history in dealing with this issue,” he continued. “We have told not the truth, but we have told about half the truth. We’ve told the biblical truth, and that’s important, but we haven’t applied it in the biblical way.”
“We have said to people that homosexuality is just a choice,” Mohler said. “It’s clear that it’s more than a choice. That doesn’t mean it’s any less sinful, but it does mean it’s not something people can just turn on and turn off. We are not a gospel people unless we understand that only the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ gives a homosexual person any hope of release from homosexuality.”
Mohler said churches have not done their job until “there are those who have been trapped in that sin sitting among us.”
Lumpkin said in is blog June 16 that Mohler’s answer was not what he expected to hear and something “I’ll be digesting a long time.”
Mohler has appeared on television programs and been quoted in mainstream media many times over the years in opposition to gay marriage, ordination of gay clergy and other aspects of what he has called attempts to “normalize” homosexual behavior.
As recently as May Mohler described a decision by the Presbyterian Church (USA) Presbytery of the Twin Cities in Minnesota to ordain persons without regard to sexual orientation as “yet another tragedy in the sad history of mainline Protestantism’s race toward total theological disaster.”
In June Mohler objected to use of the term “clobber scriptures” to describe Bible verses that label
I'm thinking Mohler wouldn't condone the church telling a homosexual to "sin no more".
That would be considered 'homophobic' in and of itself.
The goal is most likely not salvation through Christ by repentence from sin.
Romans 1
1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life[a] was a descendant of David, 4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power[b] by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from[c] faith for his name’s sake. 6 And you also are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.
7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul’s Longing to Visit Rome 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9 God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10 in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other’s faith. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers and sisters,[d] that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles.
14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[f] God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
If I had only read the headlines I’d have a different oppinion of Mohler. He still says it’s a sin.
However, I don’t like the use of the word homophobia. And I didn’t see in the article where he explained exactly what the church should repent for?
Well you just continue to hang out over at the kingdom hall. You will find your answers there.
I’m Independent Baptist because if you’re going to be a bear you might as well be a grizzly. If the president of any Independent Baptist seminary said something like this everyone would know he was joking.
>> “But it’s funny that we will send missionaries all over the world to preach the Gospel and then toss people out of our own church for being sinners.” <<
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1Cor.5
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
[2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
[8] Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
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Looks like Paul agrees with ejecting open willful sinners from the congregation.
I fully understand what the homosexual community wants. I have listened to Mohler enough to believe that he is doing/saying the right thing. (Hopefully he doesn’t prove me wrong.)
However, I am not sure if you are correct about disallowing unsaved people into the congregation, as a visitor. How then shall they see our love for one another, ala “They shall know Him by our love for one another”?
There is a dangerous isolationism, a false asceticism, in Christian circles today; a sin that supposes to be “removed from the world” makes one holier than those who are actively in the world, preaching, being an example, etc.
I think the problem is that we have no idea at all as to how we are to “make disciples of all nations” but we are really really good at playing church.
I'm taken aback to hear that there is actually some sort of "doctrine" about Pastors not evangelizing, or that somehow the church proper is not a place to witness or evangelize. Since when?
(PastorBooks earlier analogy between the synagogue and the church holds no water because the Jews under the Old Covenant really didn't ever consider evangelism; they had not the Holy Spirit freely given to be given away.)
Yes, he does and does so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I believe if all Christian churches followed this command - not even omitting their pastors, elders, leaders - then the body of Christ would grow and glorify God in the way he desires we should. The world today expects everyone to wink at sin and even encourages it in music, movies, TV and other media. As a result our culture has grown coarser. Unwed motherhood becomes accepted, almost normal. Casual sex is seen as harmless as holding hands. Abortion rates throughout the world total around 40 to 50 MILLION per year. This comes to 125,000 abortions per day! Homosexuality is being forced upon the schools and all of society is being pressured to accept it as just another way of life - perfectly normal, perfectly legitimate. Anyone who speaks a word against it is automatically accused of homophobia. A word thrown out like the race card is in order to quickly quiet those who object to it.
All I can say is if the body of Christ is not seen as any different morally than the rest of the world, then what does that tell the unsaved about Jesus? We MUST be the ones that show our lives have truly been changed. That knowing the Lord has made a real difference in our lives. We owe it to the lost and we definitely owe it to our God. The Bible is more than just a book created to "keep us from having fun" - as the world sees it. We must prove that it is the Users Manual from a loving Creator God who knows what is best for us and wants what is best for us. The blessings he promises are real and every much as relevant today as they were since the beginning.
Placemark.
“sexual orientation is a deep inner struggle and not merely a matter of choice.”
so here’s the tragic dilemma: the afflicted, struggling homosexual struggles without hope of rescue unless he is one of the elect, one of the chosen. so, he neither chose his sin nor can he choose his redemption...
silly Calvinists talking about choice as if it were possible
...they get confused sometimes.
The one thing that you all have to remember is that Southern Baptist Churches are autonomous.
The SBC has no control over them.
That was a very nice post. Thank you so much!
“non-binding resolution”
It is what is is...nothing...nada.
in my humble opinion, there can be no “rawer” connection than in the Eucharist. There I can feel the presence of my Lord, God and Savior, I can hear His words, His teachings, see His Sacrifice, resurrection and glorious ascension into heaven. I commune with my fellow Christians and together, as with the choirs of saints and angels in heaven, glorify and praise Him, just as my spiritual ancestors did and my spiritual successors will.
I disagree totally. I never said “REQUIRE”. It is the most likely place they will hear the gospel. It is where their sins may be confronted. It is where they may realize that that lifestyle is NOT “normal” or accepted still today.
“go out to them? Yeah right, I'll bet they do that at your church all the time. I think I'll go to a gay bar and profess the gospel and see how many converts I get, (after I recover from my injuries).
Then you would be WRONG. There is no difference between one sin and another. Sin is sin. I guarantee your church is filled with sinners every Sunday. This is not the teaching of Jesus. Of what value is preaching the gospel to the saved?
ONE of the correct points you made. After “a time” if there is no “remorse or change of heart”, they should be confronted as is spelled out in the scriptures, and if after that they continue in their sin, they should be expelled from the church.
This procedure instead of.... “Excuse me, you look gay to me. Are you gay? Oh, you are! I'm sorry we don't allow gays in our church. You must leave. Repent, and then come back”.
Showing the love of Christ?
P.S. I never said or intended to imply that they be allowed to become voting “members” while still committing their sin. They could not get a voting majority to change the church constitution and bylaws.
Richard Land has been lobbying for the DREAM Act before congress & in DC for several years.
You can be a weasel and say that “comprehensive immigration reform” is not amnesty.
Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.
If a bunch of Baptists get together in a room and decide that abortion is OK would that be fine with you? Because I have a feeling that is coming next.
First — I don’t lie.
Second — You don’t understand Baptist Polity. Richard Land speaks for exactly no one but himself. Unfortunately, in this case, Baptists still fund his agency though he speaks AGAINST the will of most Baptists by and large.
Third — Weasel? No. Not even close. In fact, Richard Land isn’t even a weasel. I know him. He’s just WRONG on this issue. DEAD wrong. That doesn’t make him a weasel.
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