Posted on 04/10/2011 8:04:24 AM PDT by phil_will1
One of the more intriguing new websites on the political blogoshere is POPVOX. POPVOX is an interactive site that enables individual citizens to weigh in on bills introduced into congress. You can vote for/against bills in the house or senate and you can also make a comment that will be displayed on the respective Bill Report page and forwarded to your respective representative/senator.
POPVOX also has a mapping facility which shows where support\opposition to a bill is coming from geographically. You can drill down to CD level all the way up to state and national.
HR 25 (The FairTax) made last week's POPVOX list of trending bills. As of the time of this writing, just under 1,500 votes had been cast for the bill on POPVOX, with 86% in support. Other FairTax related bills (S 13 and HJ Res 16) show even higher support percentages, albeit with much lower vote totals. HR 1040, by contrast, showed 74 votes being cast, 94% of which were in opposition. HR 1040 is the only flat tax bill in the house, where tax reform legislation is supposed to originate under our system of government.
You said
NOOOOOO to Fair Tax.
Yes, to Flat Tax.
I strongly agree!!!
The Fair Tax gets more revenue from the truly wealthy rather than high income earners who are still wage slaves as well as taxing the illegal alien underground economy and criminal income. All great goals IMHO.
Absolutely!
The real issue is FReedom and Liberty.
In simple terms, whenever the government has first claim to a person’s earnings (as in an income tax), all other tax issues become irrelevant.
The truth is that, under any form of income taxation, you, as an individual, have lost your economic FReedom — you are a slave to the government.
The 16th Amendment to the US Constitution fundamentally altered the relationship of the American people to their government.
Prior to 16th, people were master, government was slave.
After 16th, government was master, people were slaves.
FairTax seeks to right this horrible wrong done to the American people in 1913.
Passing the FairTax will allow and encourage ALL AMERICANS to work, earn, save and invest. And by then taxing, not earnings, but retail sales, at one low, flat rate, the US government will re-establish FReedom and Liberty as an important guiding principle for governance in the 21st Century.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2702227/posts
I posted the above rant yesterday on FR, sent this is an email to Boehner and sent to the Austin Unamerican Statesman editorial page. I seriously doubt if it get published and if it does, I will probably attacked by the radical leftists that inhabit Austin.
I’ve heard the income tax was on the top one half of one percent to pay for WWI.
Amen Taxman! AMEN!
The fact is that we will never again be a truly FREE people for so long as we continue to abide the communist inspired, class warfare inducing, income tax and the IRS!
:)
“I've read both (popular) Fair Tax books and I still favor the flat tax a little. The reason is because of the “Prebate”. That little nick in the plan gives the politicians a way to buy votes from the poor since they appear to have the right to adjust it, which could mean no change from the current tax system, which sucks.”
econjack
You don’t know the half of what the fair tax will do unless you carefully study the actual text of the proposed legislation, H.R. 25, and its companion legislation H.J.RES 16 to repeal the 16th Amendment. The two books give a fairytale version of the proposal.
The truth about the alleged fair tax is, it is a proposed massive expansion of what Congress may tax, proposing to adopt a 23 percent tax upon the sale of new manufactured products and a 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which working people [Mary and Joe Sixpack] have in their labor, while keeping alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes!
You might want to fire off an email to fairtax.org and ask them why, if they are really serious about withdrawing from Congress’ authority the power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes, why they refuse to add the following language to H.J. RES. 16, the fairtax companion legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment?
The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money
Without this language in the proposed repeal of the 16th Amendment, Congress maintains power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, and other incomes, e.g., the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, upheld in Flint vs. Stone Tracy, and, a tax calculated from income laid during the war between the States and upheld in Springer vs. United States.
But don’t expect Mike Huckabee, Herman Cain, or fairtax.org to tell you Congress is intended to maintain the power to lay and collect taxes calculating from profits, gains and other income under the alleged fair tax. I have been trying to get the ringleaders behind the fairtax to disclose this to the American People for years without any success, and so, I post the information in as many forums as I can.
Something also interesting to note is fairtax.org’s founder, Leo E. Linbeck Jr, is/was part of the thieving money laundering operation called the federal reserve, which has been plundering our federal treasury for generations and keeping its operations secret, e.g. see: Federal Reserve Documents Reveal Massive Foreign Bank Bailouts
By Julie Borowski on Apr 04, 2011
Last week, the American people were finally informed on what the Federal Reserve has done with some of their money behind closed doors. It was revealed that one of the largest recipients of the Fed’s money was foreign banks during the 2008 economic downturn. We can’t say that we’re surprised. The Fed fought tooth and nail to keep these documents secret for a reason.
But getting back to the alleged fair tax, you are absolutely correct about the family consumption entitlement which would be created under the alleged fair tax, and would be our nation’s largest entitlement ever!
I believe the average annual earnings in America is about $50K. And the monthly family consumption entitlement check would be about $450. While the monthly entitlement check would mean a great deal to your average wage earner and those who earn less than $50K, and mean even more to those already on the public dole and not working, and, considering the above mentioned groups account for an overwhelming majority of voters, perhaps 80% of our nation’s population, that same check to a person earning about $150-200K would mean very little, and surely not enough to be bribed during federal elections.
But the wage earner with $50K a year and those earning far less, and surely those already on the public dole would more than likely gravitate to our progressive gang on Capitol Hill during federal elections who would promise to increase the family consumption allowance to bribe these voters, just as they have with social security over the years. And the sad truth is, our progressive gang on Capitol Hill already has their speech ready to increase the family consumption entitlement in order to buy votes during federal elections.
How dare those who have imposed the fair tax on our nation’s poor, now refuse to increase the family consumption allowance to relieve the oppressive nature of a tax which taxes the food a mother buys to feed her child, taxes the clothing she purchases to cloth that child, taxes the fuel used to heat that child’s room during winter, taxes the medicine a mother needs to care for a sickly child, and then taxes the coffin used to bury her child because she could not afford the taxes imposed upon every imaginable necessity of life!
Were we not warned by our founding fathers that A POWER OVER A MAN's SUBSISTENCE [the fairtax family consumption entitlement] AMOUNTS TO A POWER OVER HIS WILL ?____ Hamilton, No. 79 Federalist Papers
But make no mistake, I do not agree with you on a flat income tax. I do not want to keep alive the Marxist income tax. What I support is going back to our Constitution’s original tax plan which I outlined in Donald Trump and his possible run for the presidency, taxes and trade.
Regards,
JWK
You are greatly mistaken if you think the fair tax seeks to right the wrong of the 16th Amendment with respect to working people and their property.
The truth is, Mary and Joe Sixpack, under the alleged fair tax, are enslaved just as they now are, because the proposed tax would tax the sale of the property which Mary and Joe have in their labor.
Now let us examine how this tax upon “property” would affect Mary and Joe Sixpack, ordinary working people. Mary and Joe have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a plumbing company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash.
Under the alleged fair tax Mary and Joe Sixpack’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event, and, they must first register with government to sell the property they have in their labor, collect a federal tax for Congress, file federal sales tax returns 12 freaken times a year under the penalty of perjury, and they will be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up, not to mention the threat of audits which will constantly haunt them if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor.
Funny thing is, our founding fathers, during the Constitutional Convention of 1787, were fully aware of the oppressive nation of taxes imposed upon property and this is the very reason for our founding fathers demanding in our Constitution that No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
Bottom line is, the alleged fairtax is a proposed massive expansion of what Congress may tax while keeping alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes.
JWK
Please prove your point: cite for me the precise, specific language in H.R. 25 that requires the activity and record keeping you assert.
SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.
`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services.
`(d) Liability for Tax-
`(1) IN GENERAL- The person using or consuming taxable property or services in the United States is liable for the tax imposed by this section, except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection.
`(2) EXCEPTION WHERE TAX PAID TO SELLER-A person using or consuming a taxable property or service in the United States is not liable for the tax imposed by this section if the person pays the tax to a person selling the taxable property or service and receives from such person a purchaser's receipt within the meaning of section 510.
Also see:
`(f) Barter Transactions- If gross payment for taxable property or services is made in other than money, then the person responsible for collecting and remitting the tax shall remit the tax to the sales tax administering authority in money as if gross payment had been made in money at the tax inclusive fair market value of the taxable property or services purchased
`(a) In General- Any person liable to collect and remit taxes pursuant to section 103(a) who is engaged in a trade or business shall register as a seller with the sales tax administering authority administering the taxes imposed by this subtitle.
Mary and Joe Sixpack subject to monthly reports, and monthly fairtax returns.
`SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS.
`(a) Tax Reports and Filing Dates-
`(1) IN GENERAL- On or before the 15th day of each month, each person who
Is--
`(A) liable to collect and remit the tax imposed by this subtitle by reason of section 103(a), or
`(B) liable to pay tax imposed by this subtitle which is not collected pursuant to section 103(a),
shall submit to the appropriate sales tax administering authority (in a form prescribed by the Secretary) a report relating to the previous calendar month.
Bottom line is, the alleged fairtax is a proposed massive expansion of what Congress may tax while it keeps alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes.
JWK
I yield your point, John. Under the FairTax, Joe and Mary Sixpack will have to start collecting the FairTax and filing tax returns.
Given your point of view, that is a bad thing.
FRom my point of view, it is a good thing, because it is illegal under the present system, and will be illegal under the FairTax system, for Joe and Mary Sixpack to work under the table for cash in the Black Market economy.
Several benefits will accrue to Joe and Mary: 1.) They will not have to file annual federal and state tax returns ever again under the FairTax; 2.) Until the SS and Medicare systems are changed (as I believe they should be), Joe and Mary’s business income will increase their SS benefits; 3.) They will be compensated for their administrative burden, and; 4.) They will not be breaking the law.
On the whole, John, the benefits of the FairTax both for America and Joe and Mary Sixpack far, far outweigh the drawbacks.
There is no perfect system of taxation.
FairTax is far better than the present system, and that is the objective — a fairer, simpler, less costly system of taxation which taxes every American at the same rate and restores a measure of FReedom and Liberty to all.
I yield your point, John. Under the FairTax, Joe and Mary Sixpack will have to start collecting the FairTax and filing tax returns.
Yes, they sure will, and twelve times a freaken year. And Mary and Joe Sixpack will still be subject to audits and must keep any records Congress may dream up, simply for selling the property they have in their labor. Sounds pretty much like our existing system except the misery occurs 12 times a year! And let us not forget that Mary and Joe not only get to send a 23 percent tax to uncle sugar on the sale of the property they have in their labor, but they also get to pay another 23 percent tax upon their purchases.
And let us not forget if H.J. RES 16 were adopted as written and the 16th Amendment were repealed, Congress would maintain the power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes which I documented in IN POST NO. 49
Seems to me the alleged fair tax is a very clever proposal which would enlarge the subject matter which Congress may tax, not to mention it would create the largest entitlement in America’s history under its family consumption allowance and also create a massive voting block dependent upon a monthly government check who will have a vested interest in voting for our PROGRESSIVE DOMESTIC ENEMY CROWD who will constantly promise to increase the month entitlement check during federal elections. I guess that is why the ringleaders of the proposal call their tax a “progressive” tax.
Let me also point out H.R. 25 happens to be a massive redistribution of wealth in view of the fact the those who are already on the public dole and not gainfully employed get a monthly bonus, the family consumption entitlement, which is taxed away from Mary and Joe.
My feeling is, our founding fathers got the federal tax system right and I my suggestion is to return to our Constitution’s original tax plan, as our founders intended it to operate, and that could be accomplished by adding the following 32 words to our Constitution:
The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money
JWK
If we can make the majority of America’s families dependent upon a federal government check, [the alleged fair tax’s family consumption entitlement] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s productive population enslaved to pay the bills ___Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the bread which America’s labor and business has produced.
It is obvious to me that your mind is made up, and so is mine.
I believe in the FairTax. There is legislation in the Congress to repeal the income tax and abolish the IRS. That would be H.R. 25.
You don’t like the FairTax. That is OK, but HST, where is the legislation to effect the tax system you propose?
I stated my reasons for objecting to the alleged fair tax, especially that it is a proposal for a massive expansion of what Congress may tax, allowing Congress to adopt a 23 percent tax upon the sale of newly manufactured property in addition to a 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which working people have in their labor, while the proposal keeps alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes. Why one would support such a massive increase in what Congress may tax is difficult to understand especially when it would create a dependent voting block under its family consumption entitlement which would dwarf the number of social security recipients. But that’s usually how progressives maintain their power in Washington. They keep creating voting constituencies dependent upon a government check, AKA bribing voters with money from the federal treasury, and the alleged fairtax would be the granddaddy of all entitlements.
BTW, does it not concern you that the founder of fairtax.org, Leo E. Linbeck Jr., is a past chairman and director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, and former director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas-Houston Branch, part of that thieving banking cartel which takes billions, upon billions of American Taxpayer dollars and launders them by sending them abroad to banks on foreign soil, and who now wants to expand what Congress may tax, expanding federal taxes to include a 23 percent tax upon the sale of newly manufactured property, and, a new 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which working people have in their labor, while keeping alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes?
JWK
If we can make the majority of America’s families dependent upon a federal government check, [the alleged fair tax’s family consumption entitlement] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s productive population enslaved to pay the bills ___Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the bread which America’s labor and business has produced.
I do not need, nor will I read, your repetitive comments about why you don’t like the FairTax. Obviously, I think you are wrong, and I believe any attempt on my part to debate the issue with me would be like putting lipstick on a pig.
Answer my question: Who in Congress supports a tax system such as you promote, and what is the bill number?
You say I am wrong. Can you be more specific and state what I am wrong about?
Am I wrong that H.R. 25, including its companion legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment, H.J.RES. 16, if adopted, would not remove the authority of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes? Am I wrong that the family consumption entitlement would create a massive voting block dependent upon a monthly government check? What am I wrong about?
As to who in Congress supports our Constitution’s original tax plan, seems to me Congress is quit comfortable in ignoring almost every part of our Constitution, including our Constitution‘s original tax plan which I outlined in Donald Trump and his possible run for the presidency, taxes and trade, and is continually looking to enlarge its iron fist over America’s businesses, industries and working people, and appears to be what is intended under the alleged fair tax as I have already pointed out. But if I’m wrong, I’m sure you will take the time to specify where I am wrong.
Regards,
JWK
Were we not warned by our founding fathers that A POWER OVER A MAN's SUBSISTENCE [the fairtax family consumption entitlement] AMOUNTS TO A POWER OVER HIS WILL ?____ Hamilton, No. 79 Federalist Papers
I think you are wrong to oppose the FairTax.
Specifically, I believe that the FairTax is a better way to raise funds for the legitimate purposes of government than the progressive income tax.
Ergo, since I believe that, those who oppose the FairTax are on the wrong side of me.
Is that an admission that what I have stated about H.R.25 and H.J.RES 16 is accurate?
JWK
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