Soldier says ordered to delete Fort Hood videos

AP ^ | 10-15-2010

[My Favorite Headache]

FORT HOOD, Texas – A soldier who recorded the terror of last year's deadly shooting rampage in Fort Hood using his cell phone was ordered by an officer to delete both videos, a military court heard Friday.

Under cross examination, Pfc. Lance Aviles told an Article 32 hearing that his noncommissioned officer ordered him to destroy the two videos on Nov. 5, the same day that a gunman unleashed a volley of bullets inside a processing center at the Texas Army post.

The footage could have been vital evidence at the military hearing to decide if Maj. Nidal Hasan should stand trial in the shootings. The 40-year-old American-born Muslim has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.

Prosecutors have not said whether they'll seek the death penalty if the case goes to trial.

[bolobaby]

NCOs can issue legal orders.

In the Army, E-6 and below are part of the chain of command.

[Hulka]

And all hand-held weapons are “AK-47’s” or “assualt weapons.”

[bolobaby]

Different angle from me, a former soldier...

WTF was this lame-arse soldier doing VIDEOTAPING a frickin’ massacre? Why wasn’t he pulling friends to safety? Considering options to engage with a makeshift weapon? Organizing a defense plan?

I’m ex-infantry, so the fight vs. flight instinct is VERY strong in me. I could never videotape something like this instead of acting and live with myself.

[starvosan]

Yes, there were plenty of witnesses. I wonder if we will get to here from these:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html
At least one person is “neutralized” in connection with the incident, and [b]a second[/b] is “cornered,” retired Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore told CNN, citing “unofficial, unconfirmed reports” from two sources.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091105/ts_alt_afp/usshootingcrimemilitar
Armed gunm[b]e[/b]n Thursday killed .....
A suspect was in custody, Master Sergeant Tim Volkert at Fort Hood told AFP.
But a Killeen police department spokeswoman warned [b]there were still suspects at large[/b]. “There has been a shooting at Fort Hood and all the suspects are not in custody at this time,” she told AFP. “[b]I know they have active shooters out there[/b].”
MSNBC reported there were at least two shooters, with one in custody, adding there was speculation that [b]there may be a third gunman[/b].

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
One gunman was reportedly in custody and another was on the loose, NBC News said. [b]A third shooter may be involved[/b], according to NBC News affiliate KCEN in Waco...

http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=36896
There are [b]two [u]confirmed[/u] suspect shooters[/b], one in custody and another surrounded by swat in a building on post.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2009/11/05/army_7_dead_in_dual_attacks_at.html
Army spokesman Lt. Col. Nathan Banks ... says [b]two shooters were apparently involved[/b].

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2009/11/05/ap_update_one_shooter_in_custo.html
Fort Hood spokeswoman Sgt. Rebekah Lampan says [b]authorities believe at least two gunmen were involved[/b] in the attack on Thursday.

http://www.freerepublic.com/^http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?GT1=43001
Milly Land, who works at the base fitness center, said she was headed for the graduation ceremony at 2 p.m. at the Howze Theater when the campus was locked down. She went back to the fitness center. She said she spoke by phone with friends at the [u]soldier processing center[/u], who said a gunman walked in about 1:30, walked to the medical area of the processing center, and started shooting. [b]A second gunman was shooting at the theater next door[/b], she said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html
[b]All [u]three[/u] of the people believed to have carried out the shooting[/b] were soldiers, Lt. General Bob Cone told reporters Thursday evening.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=143149.40
no.162
—rick perry (gov and bilderberg member) said [b]there were 3 shooters[/b]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/091105/world/us_shooting_crime_military
Base spokesman Sergeant Major Jamie Poston
“At this point we’re looking for [b]the other shooter[/b].... “ he added.
“We are on the lookout for [b]the second shooter[/b],” Poston said.

ATS
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread516987/pg1
posts
—’’They are reporting [b]a third shooter[/b] now.’’
[That source was Ms. Shine from the Public Affairs office of Killeen, TX]
—’’[b]3rd shooter now being reported[/b] as having been shooting “moments ago”.’’
—’’Shepard Smith was talking with someone who [b]confirmed a 3rd shooter[/b].’’
—pg19[dwiggen] ‘’My buddy at Hood just told me that there’s [b]a FOURTH SHOOTER[/b]! ....There is a confirmed FOURTH SHOOTER who is still at large. They just launched aircraft to search for him. My buddy.. is an Apache mechanic, and they just got word to spin their birds up and go lookin for this guy.’’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6510855/Seven-dead-in-shooting-at-Fort-Hood-military-base-in-Texas.html
One gunman was caught quickly but [b]the second[/b] went on the run and was cornered by SWAT teams

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/not_just_a_lone_gunman/
KCEN-TV in Waco is reporting that one gunman is in custody, the other is involved in a standoff with police. The station is reporting that [b]there is a third shooter[/b].

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/78425.html
Details of the events were sketchy, but [b]officials said the shooting involved two men[/b] with M-16 rifles and began about 1:30 p.m.

[ErnBatavia]

The military is not a democracy.

[dools0007world]

Videos are made on military installations frequently. They encompass everything from promotions, individual and installation perfomrmance awards and retirements. Installations even celebrate 4th of July and Organization Days. They offer static displays of miitary equipment—and even military skill demonstrations (sky diving and rapelling from helicoptors, for example). The public is usually invited to attend. Their is no photograhic prohibitiion of the events.

There is not enough info available to conclude the demand to delete the images was simply NCO overzealousness or something more sinister.

[montag813]

The military is not a democracy.

Did I say it was? I said 1st Amendment applies (and 4th) if it was a personal phone.

[a fool in paradise]

It’s not like it’s photos of a warcrime like putting panties on a jihadist’s head...

[noblejones]

>>
The military is not a democracy.
<<

Civil law trumps military code. Destroying evidence in a capital crime is potentially itself a capital crime.

[a fool in paradise]

Addressing the court via video link from Afghanistan, Spc. Megan Martin said she had been waiting to take medical tests when saw a man to her left stand up and shout "Allahu Akbar!" — "God is great!" in Arabic — then start firing a weapon.

The media was quick to cover up this detail from the day of the attack.

[a fool in paradise]

I really want to know where this order came from. Did it come from Obama and Holder? Obama has his fingerprints all over anything having to do with soft treatment of terrorists, even aiding and abetting them (like leaving the border wide open for them to walk in)

Barack Obama was too busy giving "shout outs" to his homies.

[King Moonracer]

kind of cynical of the NCO, assuming a coverup would be needed during the gunfire. Did he suspect an LSD experiments gone awry?

[Canedawg]

“It is illegal to destroy evidence, and was therefore an illegal order.”

Bingo

[MrB]

See, that’s the mistake all the witnesses made - they said he was yelling “Allahu Akbar!”, proving this was an Islamic Jihad incident.

Actually, there was a LONG line at the commissary, and the guy snapped. He was actually yelling

“all a’ you at the snack bar!”.

It had nothing to do with Islam at all - just a long wait.

/MSM leftist spin

[tutstar]

Lakin can’t have discovery and now they want evidence destroyed. hmmmmm.....

[tutstar]

gnip

[Badeye]

‘Most junior military members do not question orders unless they are clearly illegal.

They are taught to follow orders.’

It was clearly an illegal order. I wouldn’t have followed it when I served, had this technology been available. It was evidence of a mass murder, it was recorded on a personal device.

[a fool in paradise]

When the incident has been reported, including here, it’s said that he said “allahu akbar”. But frankly every time I’ve ever heard it SAID it was “allah akbar”.

The language police are sure to get the “proper” phrasing versus what the witnesses actually HEARD.

[Old Student]

“Did I say it was? I said 1st Amendment applies (and 4th) if it was a personal phone.”

No, sir. US law says all photos taken on or of US military facilities and personel are US property.

On the other hand, the NCO was seriously wrong to order the videos destroyed. Since this was an Army post, the CID should have been notified of their existance. They would have copied them, at least, but more probably confiscated the phone, and taken a statement, to establish chain of evidence.

I was a photographer for the USAF for a decade. Last I checked, the rules on this haven't changed from when I was active duty. There are just more ways of getting personal photos and videos.

[hattend]

Okay, my first question...why?