Posted on 10/03/2010 9:12:54 AM PDT by kristinn
ABC News' Christiane Amanpour has done a great service today with her panel discussion on whether America should fear Islam.
Thanks to guests Franklin Graham, Robert Spencer and Peter Gadiel refusing to submit to Allah and political correctness, and the brashness of Anjem Choudary, Americans watching broadcast television have learned more about Islam in the hour long show than many have in the nine years since 9/11.
Franklin Graham was unapologetic in his stance on Islam, however he differentiated between Islam the religion and Muslim people. Gary Bauer and Ayaan Hirsi Ali also deserve credit for speaking truth to Islam on the broadcast.
AMANPOUR: I would like to go to Reza Aslan, who is joining us from Amsterdam, and who is a scholar on these matters. Reza, you have heard just right now several points raised. One is that Muslims in this country are trying to bring Sharia law. Is there a shred of evidence for that?
REZA ASLAN, WRITER, "THE DAILY BEAST"/author: No, not a single shred whatsoever. I think somebody needs to remind Franklin Graham that we don't judge our values in the United States by comparing them to what the Saudis do. This is a common refrain that you hear from a lot of anti-Muslim activists in the United States, including Robert Spencer, that, well, if, in Saudi Arabia, you can't have a church, then, therefore, in the United States, you shouldn't be allowed to have mosques. This is an appalling and laughable argument.
GRAHAM: You know we can have an argument -- but I'm not here to argue. As a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and that no man comes to the father in heaven except through him. I don't believe in Islam. I don't believe a word of it. I do respect their right to -- to believe whatever they want to believe. My opinions are not based on hearsay. My opinions are based on 50 years of working in Middle Eastern countries. I'm 58. I was -- eight years old when I made my first trip to Egypt. And I've been to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia. I've worked in these countries. But I disagree, Christiane, with -- with the Sharia law, because they do stone women. They do imprison -- I -- I've worked in the Sudan, where they've burned over a thousand churches -- a thousand.
... GRAHAM: When we talk about -- there are millions of Muslims in this world that are wonderful people, who don't beat their wives, who don't practice honor killings--
AMANPOUR: Why do you call it a wicked religion, an evil religion?
GRAHAM: I think to -- to take your daughter, because you think that -- and the religion gives you the authority -- Sharia gives you the authority for honor killing. And we saw the young girl in Ohio just a few--
....
KHAN: Well, this -- this particular center will create a counter-momentum against extremism, because it will amplify the voices of moderate Muslims, which have gotten drowned out over the years by the extremists, because the extremists did not only hijack the planes, they hijacked an entire religion.
AMANPOUR: Let me just say stop you there for a second, because this side is obviously the side that says one shouldn't fear and that there are moderates and the whole religion should not be painted with the same brush. I want to, though, now go to Anjem Choudary in London. You have said that you think there should be Islamic domination. Why shouldn't people be afraid of that?
CHOUDARY: Well -- well, let me just say that Islam has a solution for all of the problems that mankind faces. If you want to live at peace with Muslims, we are quite willing to live at peace with you. But let us remember that history did not begin on 9/11. Before 9/11, the Americans -- the American government bombed Sudan and Afghanistan. They were supporting the pirate state of Israel. So 9/11 was a reaction. You know, I think that we need to get away from the stereotyping. And this idea that you have moderate Muslims and you have radical Muslims, you know, it's complete nonsense. A Muslim is the one who submits to the command of the creator. If he submits, he is a practicing Muslim. If he is not, then he should be practicing.
DAISY KHAN: I have to disagree with him, because Islam is a religion of pluralism that embraces all religions and it also embraces different interpretations. This is why we have so many schools of thought. What Anjem is talking about is an exclusivist view of Islam, which is my way or the highway. And my interpretation is the only interpretation--
CHOUDARY: It's very easy for people to justify the fact that they're not practicing. I mean, this lady in your studio, she should be covering with the hijab. She's obviously not practicing --
(CROSSTALK)
CHOUDARY: There are many people who are justifying -- there are many people who are justifying the inability to practice the Sharia, to say, "Well, I have a different form of religion." You know, people want to claim that they're vegetarians and they're eating big beef burgers. You can not be a non-practicing vegetarian. Therefore, similarly, if you're a Muslim, you submit to the Sharia.
FRANKLIN GRAHAM: He's telling the truth.
AMANPOUR: You see, Reverend Graham says you're telling the truth. So, do you agree with Reverend Graham and our panelists on this side that Americans should fear Islam?
CHOUDARY: we do believe, as Muslims, the East and the West will one day be governed by the Sharia. Indeed, we believe that one day, the flag of Islam will fly over the White House. Indeed, there's even an oration of the Prophet where he said, "The day of judgment will not come until a group of my oma... -- "
DONNA MARSH O'CONNOR: Can I just -- ?
CHOUDARY: "Conquer the White House."
...
AMANPOUR But is it a question now of, basically, tarring or conflating, confusing everyone, 1.57 billion Muslims around the world, with that minority group who would do harm and who would cause violence?
GADIEL: I do not say that Islam is evil. I say there is a lot of evil connected with it. That is a problem for Muslims themselves. They have to cure the problem. We're supposed to believe Ms. Khan here, that she can cure the problems of Islam at the fringes. The problem goes to the core, and that is the countries -- you cannot ignore Saudi Arabia and Iran, and the other countries that, undoubtedly do oppress people of a different religion --
AMANPOUR: But we're talking about -- we're talking about America here.
GADIEL: We're talking about right now a very small number of people in this country. And what we are afraid of, is that as the number grows, the violence will grow, as we have seen in Holland, and as we see in Germany, and as we see in England. Do we have a reason to be afraid of Muslims right now? No, the number's not very great. But your mosques, moderate, wherever they are, have been infiltrated and have a history of being infiltrated by radicals. And you can't deny it. And you may, for all I know, not be a moderate you pretend to be, because you may be engaging in takia and be engaging in lying for the purpose of furthering your religion.
(LAUGHTER)
...
ASLAN: Well, it comes from the - an organization, a neo - not - what the E.U. refers to as the neo-Nazi organization called Stop Islamization of Europe. And that kind of institutionalized Islamophobia is precisely what your organization, Stop Islamization of America, is importing into the United States. And honestly, you're on the wrong side of history. And very soon, in a couple of decades, you will be sweeped and your ideas will be sweeped into the garbage bin of history, along with the anti-Semites of the 20th century and the anti-Catholics of the 19th century.
(APPLAUSE)
SPENCER: Here again, Reza Aslan is displacing responsibility and trying to act as if this is something that I am doing that is illegitimate, or something that I have created. When actually, you look at the writings of 20th century -- muslim brotherhood theorists like and people like Madudi in Pakistan, the founder of Jamaat-e-Islami -- he says, "Non Muslims have absolutely no right to wield the reins of power in any part of God's earth. And, if they do, it is the believer's responsibility to dislodge them from that power by any means possible."
Christian Amanpour gave everybody room to talk. The Muslims on the panel tried but failed to dispel the truths spoken by those opposed to Islam spreading in America.
If Amanpour was hoping for a kumbaya moment, she didn't get one.
Nope they cannot.
"Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may." ~Sam Houston (Some things don't change.)
>>>”If I misunderstood your position, I apologize—my position, in part, is that we must distinguish wisely between those with the label “Muslim” and the Islamofascists who wish us harm.”
Sorry to interject, as I know your conversation is with TalBlack. You’re right there are many different types of Muslims, because muslims are people, just like Christians or Jews, hindus, etc. But, many types of muslims (people) do not change & have not changed the core, basics, and the foundations of Islam itself in 1400 years!
More so because Islam means and is about “submission” to ALL its core teachings & laws as stated, by ALL muslims. Islam does not allow for picking & choosing. This means, if you are born a muslim you should be practicing, believe in, and submit to ALL OF ISLAM, not the bits & pieces that suit you as a (whatever) muslim. Otherwise, you can be considered, as examples, an apostate, a kaffir (unbeliever) or a mischievous person, all punishable in Islamic law.
If we are talking about different sects of Islam, then people mentioned in this article for example should have specified which school (sect) of Islam they belong to, and in turn, which school (sect) believes in what specific Islamic practices, laws, Koranic teachings, hadiths, sunnahs, etc... Other than that, there are no Islamic schools (sects) called moderate, radical, fundamental, or extremist Islam.
“And to think that Congress just sits there with their finger up their.....”
I’ll finish your statement for you....
“.....collective asses.”
Ding, ding, ding... I GET IT.
CNN picked him - and he does represent the thinking of quite a few Muslim leaders.
I mean, this lady in your studio, she should be covering with the hijab.
That ugly witch, Christiane Amanpour, would be a lot easier on the eyes covered from head to toe with a hijab, a tarp, a tent...ANYTHING! And, to further Choudary's suggestion, a bar of soap in her vile mouth would be welcome, too.
I will go a step further. They will not stop until ONE man (the Caliphate/Madhi) rules everyone/everything on planet earth. I will now tell you that, that ONE person is the one the Bible calls the ‘antichrist’... the destroyer.
Check back in a few years to this post and see if I am correct.
***************************************************
If you are correct, unfortunately I won’t be able to check back.
I don’t think the audience was any more stunned than when Choudary said “the Islam flag will fly over the White House”.
http://www.bluegrasspundit.com/2010/10/muslim-leader-anjem-choudary-flag-of.html
My daughter and I just had a discussion on this, and she made the same point. Here is my counter-point. (Which I acknowledge flagrantly violates Goodwin's law.)
To understand any ideology you should first judge it by what it says about itself, from the most authoratative figures. To understand Islam one should read the Koran and sayings of Mohammad, and the main schools of interpretation on them. One should really try to understand Islam for yourself, by reading the primary texts.
To understand the ideology of Nazism one should read Mein Kampf. Once one read Mein Kampf one would understand that pathological hatred of the Jews was inherent in Nazism, that intense Nationalism and "Deutseland Uber Alles" were key components of this ideology, that war and violence were likely to be part of any Nazi rule.
Most of the counter arguments made by the Islam supporters could be made about Nazism:
Of course we would all reject such arguments as simplistic, naive and disengenuous. Yet, these are exactly the same arguments that those favoring apeasment of Islam make repeatedly.
Hopefully my points have shown the stupidity of these arguments when made about Islam. Islam is a specific ideology. It may not be as rigid as Nazism, but neither is it as broad as its supporters pretend.
It has a source (the Koran and Mohammed) and it clear from reading the source docuemnts that it is a totalitarian ideology. That is: it believes in it's own right and duty to rule everything, everywere. It requires Submission. (Islam means "submission" in Arabic) It does not value plurality or human rights.
It is fair to judge Islam by it's core texts and basic beliefs. To fail to do so because "there are millions of good Moslems" is as irresponsible as it would have been to fail to condemn Nazism because there are millions of good German members of the Party. There were, but that did not change either the evil that was the Nazi movement, or the predictable results when they achieved power.
how more obvious do you need?
“Do these radical feminists have even an inkling what’s coming for them under Sharia law?”
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If you had to get the hangover before you could drink too much no one would ever drink too much, yet people who KNOW they will get a terrible hangover still drink too much because they can have the enjoyment before the pain. Humans aren’t nearly as smart as we suppose ourselves to be, are we?
I’m sure it will.
With the help of freaks like the Congress we have now none the less.
Now we are expected to give most of it all up...for the good of a fiendish world - a world that has either become socialist secular or islamic.
We are heading towards a clash of cultures the likes the world has never seen in over 600 years.
(LAUGHTER)
This is no laughing matter, you fools! Takia is exactly what is going on. Including Christiane Amanpour, who is making it easy in the way she steers the discussion. I guess she can't wait to don that burqa and submit to Sharia law.
The left vacuuming our values is sadly an understatement. When you see reverse racism idiocy with leftist women activist accepting to be raped in Palestine while blaming us because that is “slave reparation” and reverse “rule” and legitimized slavery in the name of Shimon Perez’ altar of historicism (or alternatively that Columbian nutcase suing her government for her rescue from FARP guerrillas), we can see that the left is taking active measure to make the most absurd kind of revolution.
Why the media and activist lawyers support that mandate and blame christians? I am not sure... some powers out there might benefit, then again, it’s madness out there, upside down, good is bad and bad is good.
You made excellent points. I think, however, the influence of Islam for those that identify themselves as Muslim will, in the majority of cases, ultimately dominate the intentions of Western law and values when a choice needs to be made.
As Christians, we reject Islam which is not just a coincidence to the tenets of Western morality. Muslims obviously do not reject Islam.
A Muslim is someone who is a believer in Islam, which is an evil ideology, not unlike Hitler’s Nazism or the USSR’s Communism.
Instead of accommodating Islam and pretending that it is a peaceful “religion”, those of us who want to maintain freedom should call upon Muslims to reject it. Islam does not recognize our Constitution, or separation of “church” and state. It’s about theocracy, denial of religious freedom, denial of human rights, murder, terrorism, and barbaric “sharia” laws.
Obama tells us otherwise, and as usual he is completely wrong.
True, you might get kicked out of a Christian church for this or that but, in Islam......your ass is grass.
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