F them.
Posted on 10/03/2010 9:12:54 AM PDT by kristinn
ABC News' Christiane Amanpour has done a great service today with her panel discussion on whether America should fear Islam.
Thanks to guests Franklin Graham, Robert Spencer and Peter Gadiel refusing to submit to Allah and political correctness, and the brashness of Anjem Choudary, Americans watching broadcast television have learned more about Islam in the hour long show than many have in the nine years since 9/11.
Franklin Graham was unapologetic in his stance on Islam, however he differentiated between Islam the religion and Muslim people. Gary Bauer and Ayaan Hirsi Ali also deserve credit for speaking truth to Islam on the broadcast.
AMANPOUR: I would like to go to Reza Aslan, who is joining us from Amsterdam, and who is a scholar on these matters. Reza, you have heard just right now several points raised. One is that Muslims in this country are trying to bring Sharia law. Is there a shred of evidence for that?
REZA ASLAN, WRITER, "THE DAILY BEAST"/author: No, not a single shred whatsoever. I think somebody needs to remind Franklin Graham that we don't judge our values in the United States by comparing them to what the Saudis do. This is a common refrain that you hear from a lot of anti-Muslim activists in the United States, including Robert Spencer, that, well, if, in Saudi Arabia, you can't have a church, then, therefore, in the United States, you shouldn't be allowed to have mosques. This is an appalling and laughable argument.
GRAHAM: You know we can have an argument -- but I'm not here to argue. As a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and that no man comes to the father in heaven except through him. I don't believe in Islam. I don't believe a word of it. I do respect their right to -- to believe whatever they want to believe. My opinions are not based on hearsay. My opinions are based on 50 years of working in Middle Eastern countries. I'm 58. I was -- eight years old when I made my first trip to Egypt. And I've been to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia. I've worked in these countries. But I disagree, Christiane, with -- with the Sharia law, because they do stone women. They do imprison -- I -- I've worked in the Sudan, where they've burned over a thousand churches -- a thousand.
... GRAHAM: When we talk about -- there are millions of Muslims in this world that are wonderful people, who don't beat their wives, who don't practice honor killings--
AMANPOUR: Why do you call it a wicked religion, an evil religion?
GRAHAM: I think to -- to take your daughter, because you think that -- and the religion gives you the authority -- Sharia gives you the authority for honor killing. And we saw the young girl in Ohio just a few--
....
KHAN: Well, this -- this particular center will create a counter-momentum against extremism, because it will amplify the voices of moderate Muslims, which have gotten drowned out over the years by the extremists, because the extremists did not only hijack the planes, they hijacked an entire religion.
AMANPOUR: Let me just say stop you there for a second, because this side is obviously the side that says one shouldn't fear and that there are moderates and the whole religion should not be painted with the same brush. I want to, though, now go to Anjem Choudary in London. You have said that you think there should be Islamic domination. Why shouldn't people be afraid of that?
CHOUDARY: Well -- well, let me just say that Islam has a solution for all of the problems that mankind faces. If you want to live at peace with Muslims, we are quite willing to live at peace with you. But let us remember that history did not begin on 9/11. Before 9/11, the Americans -- the American government bombed Sudan and Afghanistan. They were supporting the pirate state of Israel. So 9/11 was a reaction. You know, I think that we need to get away from the stereotyping. And this idea that you have moderate Muslims and you have radical Muslims, you know, it's complete nonsense. A Muslim is the one who submits to the command of the creator. If he submits, he is a practicing Muslim. If he is not, then he should be practicing.
DAISY KHAN: I have to disagree with him, because Islam is a religion of pluralism that embraces all religions and it also embraces different interpretations. This is why we have so many schools of thought. What Anjem is talking about is an exclusivist view of Islam, which is my way or the highway. And my interpretation is the only interpretation--
CHOUDARY: It's very easy for people to justify the fact that they're not practicing. I mean, this lady in your studio, she should be covering with the hijab. She's obviously not practicing --
(CROSSTALK)
CHOUDARY: There are many people who are justifying -- there are many people who are justifying the inability to practice the Sharia, to say, "Well, I have a different form of religion." You know, people want to claim that they're vegetarians and they're eating big beef burgers. You can not be a non-practicing vegetarian. Therefore, similarly, if you're a Muslim, you submit to the Sharia.
FRANKLIN GRAHAM: He's telling the truth.
AMANPOUR: You see, Reverend Graham says you're telling the truth. So, do you agree with Reverend Graham and our panelists on this side that Americans should fear Islam?
CHOUDARY: we do believe, as Muslims, the East and the West will one day be governed by the Sharia. Indeed, we believe that one day, the flag of Islam will fly over the White House. Indeed, there's even an oration of the Prophet where he said, "The day of judgment will not come until a group of my oma... -- "
DONNA MARSH O'CONNOR: Can I just -- ?
CHOUDARY: "Conquer the White House."
...
AMANPOUR But is it a question now of, basically, tarring or conflating, confusing everyone, 1.57 billion Muslims around the world, with that minority group who would do harm and who would cause violence?
GADIEL: I do not say that Islam is evil. I say there is a lot of evil connected with it. That is a problem for Muslims themselves. They have to cure the problem. We're supposed to believe Ms. Khan here, that she can cure the problems of Islam at the fringes. The problem goes to the core, and that is the countries -- you cannot ignore Saudi Arabia and Iran, and the other countries that, undoubtedly do oppress people of a different religion --
AMANPOUR: But we're talking about -- we're talking about America here.
GADIEL: We're talking about right now a very small number of people in this country. And what we are afraid of, is that as the number grows, the violence will grow, as we have seen in Holland, and as we see in Germany, and as we see in England. Do we have a reason to be afraid of Muslims right now? No, the number's not very great. But your mosques, moderate, wherever they are, have been infiltrated and have a history of being infiltrated by radicals. And you can't deny it. And you may, for all I know, not be a moderate you pretend to be, because you may be engaging in takia and be engaging in lying for the purpose of furthering your religion.
(LAUGHTER)
...
ASLAN: Well, it comes from the - an organization, a neo - not - what the E.U. refers to as the neo-Nazi organization called Stop Islamization of Europe. And that kind of institutionalized Islamophobia is precisely what your organization, Stop Islamization of America, is importing into the United States. And honestly, you're on the wrong side of history. And very soon, in a couple of decades, you will be sweeped and your ideas will be sweeped into the garbage bin of history, along with the anti-Semites of the 20th century and the anti-Catholics of the 19th century.
(APPLAUSE)
SPENCER: Here again, Reza Aslan is displacing responsibility and trying to act as if this is something that I am doing that is illegitimate, or something that I have created. When actually, you look at the writings of 20th century -- muslim brotherhood theorists like and people like Madudi in Pakistan, the founder of Jamaat-e-Islami -- he says, "Non Muslims have absolutely no right to wield the reins of power in any part of God's earth. And, if they do, it is the believer's responsibility to dislodge them from that power by any means possible."
Christian Amanpour gave everybody room to talk. The Muslims on the panel tried but failed to dispel the truths spoken by those opposed to Islam spreading in America.
If Amanpour was hoping for a kumbaya moment, she didn't get one.
why do you think obama bowed down before the Saudi king?
F them.
Good works do not a good Moslem make in the eyes of the discerning. They are known to “butter up” the public and those actions are more to advance their political agenda and acceptance than that they care for “Christians” or anyone else for that matter.
When you see their history of taking a country for Islam you will find good acts preceed the push for their rights and advancement of their cause....this positions them.
Islam is what it is...trying to make it acceptable is an affront to our country and it’s people.
It’s stunning to me that the left supports what Islam intends. Do they have even a small clue what it will mean to them? Do they know what happens to people like them in Muslim countries where Sharia law is in effect? Do these radical feminists have even an inkling what’s coming for them under Sharia law?
But liberals CANNOT learn from the experiences of others-ie nationalizing health care. They refuse to look at the wealth of evidence of horror stories from from Britain and Canada and other nations that endure nationalized health care.
Such care results in elected and usually Unelected officials determining, in the end, who gets drugs, who does not, who gets to live, who has to die and, when the money is tight, who are the first to have to sacrifice.
Not to mention the long waits periods for care because most intellectual people who dream of medical careers cannot ABIDE having people in the government tell them what to do at every turn. Excellent doctors are few.
The insurance companies are bad enough-but at least there is recourse. In our new sick plan-they lose their medical license to practice if they go outside the edicts.
Can the liberals NOT LEARN what sharia is doing to innocent people? Can they not see what is happening in PARIS and LONDON and HOLLAND and elsewhere where Muslims are nasty and vile that police have certain areas they cannot even go into to protect the innocents?
WHY ARE LIBERALS SO INSANE?
AMAZING that she had Robert Spencer on her show. He is FAR too educated and involved in reporting the evils of this sub-human “religion” to be slammed by the likes of Amanpour.
Response: Given just how sick Western man has become this individual just may be correct. The West will be the only civilization in history conquered solely by words; i.e. "racism," "tolerance," "Diversity," "equality" etc. etc.
No it isn't. We have only to look at the Koran and the very acts and words of the “prophet” to KNOW BEYOND ANY DOUBT what EXACTLY Islam is. We have only to look at what Muslims did to interfere with the absolute power of Islam anywhere Islam gained the upper hand.
Fight them now, fight them later, fight them you will; including that guy with the parking lot in FLA
Wow. Thanks for posting this.
kristinn - you've done a great service posting this thread...
I'm imagining a FB Friends list that's nothing but photographs of black burkahs, all the way down...
You're right - liberals don't understand that what they offer - silly rainbows and 'can't we all get along' won't fill the smallest void. They are setting us up for the fall...
Sorry, I agree with what Franklin Graham apparently said: the people with whom we deal are the “real thing”, not necessarily their religion’s teaching.
Look, Christians are the same way: claiming to be a follower of Christ is a far cry from actually DOING it in practice. Not every claimant of Islam follows it the same way—and that is to our benefit, whereas Christianity’s claimants HARM the world by not staying true to His words.
Seems as though if we used the reasoning you’re espousing, then Christ died for everyone but the Muslims, who have to be exterminated. Such a thought is anathema to the Gospel and to good sense.
Are we at war with Islam, and is it a false religion? Absolutely. I propose we revoke the breathing rights of every terrorist on the planet. But is the Muslim host of the aformentioned Christian ministry a terrorist just by definition of his religion? No.
“CHOUDARY: we do believe, as Muslims, the East and the West will one day be governed by the Sharia. Indeed, we believe that one day, the flag of Islam will fly over the White House.”
“Conquer the White House?”
The Muslims and Radical Terrorist, Obama Hussein, have already
stolen and Conquered the White House! Outrageous!
Yes, a great civilization conquered by words.
Just the fact that Hussein Obama got elected after 9/11, and with obscured resume, tells us how easy a task this is for them.
this town-hall continued to compare Islam and the ground zero mosque as just another religion like other places of worship in your neighborhood. Very disingenuous.
Sorry, but you’re quoting an extremist who doesn’t believe that there should be different muslim sects because his is the only way. Well, there are, whether he likes it or not, and they don’t all believe as he does.
A vile, evil, veil of righteousness.
These muzzies must not have the cowboy and indian stories in the history books..
Cowboys and muzzies will be a chapter all it’s own.
Don’t believe me..just watch.
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