Military Commanders issuing orders do so on behalf of the President (LTC Lakin)

Military Law and Precedents ^ | 1896 | Colonel William Winthrop

[bushpilot1]

Much has been said the orders sending Ltc Lakin to Afganistan were not from President Obama but from his military commander.

All military orders are from the President. In the book titled Military Law and Precedents by Colonel William Winthrop on page and 20 it states the following:

"Military Commanders giving orders represent the Commander-in-Chief, the President."

[BigSkyFreeper]

If you think the military today is monolithically conservative, keep burying your head in the sand. I can assure you it’s not.

General McChrystal is a liberal.  He voted for Obama.  General Petraeus is thought to be a RINO.

Then you look at old hands like Weasel Clark.  He's anything but a Conservative.

None of these guys believe in absolute victory.  Otherwise we still wouldn't be bogged down in Afghanistan right now.

[edge919]

Sorry, but this isn’t a very compelling argument. 9-11 triggered a lot of people to volunteer for the service. Swapping out 5,000 troops out of convenience is hardly the same thing.

[BigSkyFreeper]

Five years? Try sixty-five years, because that's the last time our military has actually won a war without pre-conditions.

The liberalization of our military began decades ago when Washington, DC decided to call the shots instead of allowing the field commanders to do that job.

Nowadays, the field commanders report to Congress and Congress sets the battle plan into action, and it's been this way since the Korean War.

[reasonisfaith]

Your scenario just doesn’t sound likely, from several angles.

A refusal to obey orders by large numbers of troops would turn a really bad political state of affairs into an even worse one.

The eligibility question would be magnified.

[BigSkyFreeper]

You think the Left can't muster a formidable fighting force? History speaks differently. Look up the Red Army, the Khmer Rouge, the Viet Kong, The People's Liberation Army and learn differently.

You compare the greatest fighting force on the face of the earth to those guys?  Each one of them got their tails whipped by the U.S. military and still would even by today's military standards.

[Drew68]

A refusal to obey orders by large numbers of troops would turn a really bad political state of affairs into an even worse one.

It's not going to happen. Unless Obama implements policies that make military life very miserable (and this would be defined as a massive reduction in pay and benefits) defections in large numbers just aren't going to happen. People in the military want to keep their jobs. There may be a handful that follow Lakin's lead (though they've yet to materialize) but the rest of us will stay put and watch these individuals be made examples of.

[B4Ranch]

I considered officers in the same grouping as enlisted men even though their Oaths are different. I served and am fully aware of the differences.

[jamese777]

pls add jamese777, Mr. Rogers. and others to the list.

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I’m here.
What the military proscutor will do with any defense references to the complete military chain of command is to point out that Lieutenant Colonel Lakin followed and obeyed every order of the Commander-in-Chief for over a year until he got a movement order that could put him in harm’s way.
This is not the first refusal of movement Court Martial that the military justice system has dealt with. There have been thousands of similar court martials.
It will be up to the Military Judge, Colonel Denise Lind to decide whether to allow the defense latitude in going beyond the exact charges Lieutenant Colonel Lakin is facing or not. The Investigating Officer for the Lakin Court Martial, Lieutenant Colonel Dan Driscoll recommended only witnesses and evidence very particular to the exact charges on the charge sheet and there is no reference to Obama or Afghanistan on the charge sheet. There is a reference to Operation Enduring Freedom which began in 2001, before Obama was President.
On August 20, we should all know which direction this court martial will take.

[B4Ranch]

May I add what I believe is a missing part of your mental image of the US military. Without civilian support the US military will collapse very quickly in whatever mission they are attempting. There is 9 men supporting every soldier who is on the front lines. There is 50 or more civilians supporting the military. By this I mean farmers growing food, truckers hauling it to the bases, oil workers drilling for oil, every step of the chain, you name it. If we stop supplying the bases the bases will close.

[EDINVA]

There’s one ‘minor’ difference between academics and soldiers. The latter put their lives on the line for very little compensation. That is after at least 9 weeks of grueling basic training when they are away from hearth and home and any communication whatsoever with loved ones.

I would say also that the transformation to a more ‘progressive’ military is well underway.

[Sola Veritas]

“They don't need everyone to be liberal, —just the officers. Molding the enlisted ranks will be easy.”

I concur with your assessment. It has already started at the top. Admiral Mullin, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, is “liberal” in his views towards homosexuals serving openly serving in the military. He actively supports the President's call to repeal DADT. On this issue, he is way out of step with the rank and file. Although, sadly not as much as he would have been 20 years ago. The new personnel entering military service today have been too affected by the “Hollywood” mentality of popular culture.

[reasonisfaith]

So at first you’re all “Let’s shut up about it so 5,000 troops don’t defect cause Obama will replace them with leftists,” and now you’re “Oh don’t worry none of this could ever happen.”

You should stick with your original story.

[jamese777]

There’s one ‘minor’ difference between academics and soldiers. The latter put their lives on the line for very little compensation. That is after at least 9 weeks of grueling basic training when they are away from hearth and home and any communication whatsoever with loved ones.

I would say also that the transformation to a more ‘progressive’ military is well underway.

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An example of that progressive military is that it has operated under affirmative action for the last 20 years.

[Sola Veritas]

Thank you for posting these excerpts. Too many here that argue that the constitutional legitimacy of a POTUS is irrelevant to the orders LTC Lakin refused are just plain wrong. All authority for orders ultimately reside in the office of POTUS as per the COTUS.

Now that being said, I support LTC Lakin as the representative of the rest of us in a military status to challenge President Obama and the courts to prove or sustain his legitimacy. I would NEVER call for a mass refusal....we are not a banana republic. LTC Lakin is the test case. The rest should watch and wait.

[Drew68]

You should stick with your original story.

It's the same story. Those who disobey orders will easily be replaced by those who won't. And they'll be punished. As such, don't expect a huge military uprising against Obama. It's not going to happen.

I think you'd be surprised how few people in the ranks are even following this story.

[so_real]

Then, with all due deference to your military service, you are of the mind that the entirety of the military body is a pawn to be used at the will of the Executive branch of government. No checks. No balances. The Commander in Chief is the supreme leader, and the Constitution plays second fiddle. I do not believe that was the intent or desire of our Founders -- or even our contemporary conservatives and liberals alike (both parties would in their time be fearful of such supremacy). Ours is a system of checks and balances, one of the purposes of which is to prevent tyranny from overrunning us. An officer is a thinking man, viewing each order through the eyes of the Constitution and law, to provide just such a check and balance. If we toss Lakin to the wolves, we toss our checks and balances to the wolves. Even if you disagree with his position, I hope you'll defend his actions. If you do not, you help destroy the very system put in place to protect us from those who would subjugate us. No CiC should ever deny the nation $10 and a piece of paper when the results of which take a much needed surgeon with 18 years of experience and exceptional service off the battle field, and worse, sentenced to hard labor and discharge. That is not honorable, not at all.

[B4Ranch]

>>you are of the mind that the entirety of the military body is a pawn to be used at the will of the Executive branch of government.<<

Where in the F*** did you get that impression?

[jamese777]

Then, with all due deference to your military service, you are of the mind that the entirety of the military body is a pawn to be used at the will of the Executive branch of government. No checks. No balances. The Commander in Chief is the supreme leader, and the Constitution plays second fiddle. I do not believe that was the intent or desire of our Founders — or even our contemporary conservatives and liberals alike (both parties would in their time be fearful of such supremacy). Ours is a system of checks and balances, one of the purposes of which is to prevent tyranny from overrunning us. An officer is a thinking man, viewing each order through the eyes of the Constitution and law, to provide just such a check and balance. If we toss Lakin to the wolves, we toss our checks and balances to the wolves. Even if you disagree with his position, I hope you’ll defend his actions. If you do not, you help destroy the very system put in place to protect us from those who would subjugate us. No CiC should ever deny the nation $10 and a piece of paper when the results of which take a much needed surgeon with 18 years of experience and exceptional service off the battle field, and worse, sentenced to hard labor and discharge. That is not honorable, not at all.

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Lieutenant Colonel Lakin may very well get to see a copy of Obama’s Certificate Of Live Birth introduced as evidence in his Court Martial. It would be sent directly from the Hawaii Department of Health with a notarized letter of authenticity from the Director of Health for the State of Hawaii and the Registrar of Vital Records.
If the Military Judge is particularly deferential to the defense team, she may even allow a deposition to be taken of the Director of Health for the state of Hawaii. That deposition is likely to be done over the telephone from her office in Honolulu.

[bushpilot1]

Matters not where Obama was born. He is not a natural born citizen. The orders sending LTC Lakin OCONUS are not valid.

[bushpilot1]

Orders must not contravene existing constitutional law. All written orders come from the CIC. The court needs to determine if Obama aka Soetoro, aka Soebakah, is a natural born citizen.