Before birther row, Lt. Col. Lakin racked up medals (WOW CNN lays it honestly for ONCE!)

http://www.cnn.com/ ^

[cycle of discernment]

Before birther row, Lt. Col. Lakin racked up medals as flight surgeon

By Eliott C. McLaughlin, CNN August 6, 2010 2:51 p.m. EDT

(CNN) -- Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin is a poster soldier for the so-called birther movement, but for 17 years prior to his court-martial proceedings, the flight surgeon served around the globe, racking up a chest full of medals.

Military prosecutors allege that the Colorado native intentionally missed a plane in April after disobeying four lawful orders from superiors. Lakin has said he refused to deploy to Afghanistan until he sees proof that President Obama was born in the U.S.

In a YouTube explanation posted before he was charged, Lakin said he had no choice but the "distasteful one of inviting my own court-martial."

"If [Obama] is ineligible, then indeed, all orders are illegal because all orders have the origin with the commander in chief," he said.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice says the maximum punishment for both offenses -- missing his plane and disobeying lawful orders -- is a dishonorable discharge and up to two years in confinement. A guilty verdict could also result in forfeiture of his pay, which totals $7,959 a month, according to a charge sheet provided by a group sponsoring his defense.

[El Gato]

Again, Lakin expressly wants access to the birth certificate.

Yes, he does. But that does not mean he doesn't want it in part as proof of who BHO Jr.'s father legally was. Then Hawaiian birth or not, he can make the "two citizen parents" argument as well.

[El Gato]

You're not thinking very rationally, or logically. If you're going to make the argument that Obama isn't eligible despite being born in HI, then there is no factual or legal reason you need to see his birth certificate. The pertinent facts would all be stipulated and are a matter of public record.

Not in sworn statements in or submitted to a Court of Law. Pretty much the same as hearsay at this point.

[El Gato]

An original birth certificate is but one way to prove his eligibility.
His father's British citizenship is one way to prove he isn't.

Legally, it might take both. The one to prove who his father was, the second to prove he was not a US citizen.

[El Gato]

But, if Lakin is going to argue that Obama isn't eligible even if he WAS born in HI, then why ask for the HI birth certificate at all?

The birth certificate provides legal proof of who his father was. Absent such proof, it could have been any random black guy.

[deport]

If Lakin could get a copy of obama’s birth certificate showing that both his parents were not U.S. citizens .

**************

I thought Obama had admitted his father was a Keynan. If he did admit that then what is the necessity of the BC if it is contended that two US citizens are needed for a NBC.

[El Gato]

Obama wrote a book in 1995, twelve years before he ran for president called Dreams For My Father which details in great specificity exactly who his father was, where his father was born, and what the political situation in Kenya was before and after independence from the British Empire.

Anyone can write a book and say most anything. But a birth certificate would provide legal proof of his father's identity.

[omegadawn]

Obama has admitted that his father was a Kenyan. In our legal system admission means nothing, it still has to be proven in a court of law. As long as he can keep his original birth certificate out of the court system he will remain the “president”. That is the reason that approx. 2 million dollars has been spent on keeping his birth records out of the legal system. I have a background in law enforcement, even if you walked up to me and told me you killed someone, I would still have to prove you did it.

[DBrow]

If both parents are citizens a foreign born American can be a Natural Born Citizen, was my point. McCain being born in Panama, for instance.

The college issue is a better target than demanding a birth cert, imo.

I hope this officer has thought things all the way through, otherwise, what a waste of a career.

[deport]

But can’t you stipulate stuff in a court of law and that would be proof. Obama could stipulate his father was Keynan without having to prove it to a court. Or am I wrong?

[bushpilot1]

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=6WNq4qYz_i4C&lpg=PA49&ots=vm0922HaYa&dq=Not%20belonging%20to%20the%20judicial%20branch%20of%20government%2C%20it%20follows%20that%20courts-martial%20must%20pertain%20to%20the%20executive%20department%3B%20and%20they%20are%20in%20fact%20simply%20instrumentalities%20of%20the%20executive%20power%2C&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q=Not%20belonging%20to%20the%20judicial%20branch%20of%20government,%20it%20follows%20that%20courts-martial%20must%20pertain%20to%20the%20executive%20department;%20and%20they%20are%20in%20fact%20simply%20instrumentalities%20of%20the%20executive%20power,&f=false

[mlo]

"Something is CLEARLY wrong with our way of measuring “standing”."

Your mistake is in believing that every issue is settled in court. That's simply not the case.

[Neidermeyer]

But, if Lakin is going to argue that Obama isn’t eligible even if he WAS born in HI, then why ask for the HI birth certificate at all?
*************************************************
You are assuming that the father listed is Obama Sr. when in reality it could be anyone, a US citizen or a foreigner or even unknown ,, have you seen the bc? Why the argumentative tone?

[philman_36]

...Ankeny vs. Governore of Indiana...
That tail has already been wagged. See reply 45.
Try again.

I'd link it for you, but the last time I did that I got into a pointless argument with some guy who can't understand footnotes.
I linked the case and mentioned the footnotes directly in 45. Explain things to me. I understand footnotes and their importance.

[jamese777]

Anyone can write a book and say most anything. But a birth certificate would provide legal proof of his father’s identity.

---

A birth certificate has already provided proof of Barack Obama II’s FATHER’s identity. If any court should ever need that information, the state of Hawaii can provide a nice, new copy of the Obama Certification of Live Birth with his father’s and mother’s names on it.

There was no attempt to hide his father’s birth in Kenya since Obama wrote about it 12 years before he ran for president. The point is that if there were ever to be a trial that got to the testimony phase, Obama’s lawyers would stipulate that his father was born in Kanyadhiang village, Rachuonyo District, Kenya Colony, at the time a colony of the British Empire.
Obama’s lawyers would also stipulate that Barack Hussein Obama II was born with British Empire citizenship and that he acquired Kenyan citizenship when Kenya became an independent nation and that he lost both citizenships, British Empire upon Kenya becoming independent and Kenyan when he did not elect to retain it at age 23.

[philman_36]

Thanks for the input and critique. I feel that I’ve done much better this time around, seeing as you didn’t have to correct me again.

[jamese777]

We reiterate that we do not address the question of natural born citizen status for persons who became United States citizens at birth by virtue of being born of United States citizen parents, despite the fact that they were born abroad. That question was not properly presented to this court. Without addressing the question, however, we note that nothing in our opinion today should be understood to hold that being born within the fifty United States is the only way one can receive natural born citizen status.

---

Irrelevant.
The state of Hawaii has verified that Barack Obama was born in Honolulu on August 4, 1961 at 7:24 pm.

[edge919]

No they haven’t. Quit making things up.

[El Gato]

Before the beginning of a trial - any trial - some facts may be stipulated by both parties. Barack Obama would clearly stipulate the fact that his father was not a citizen of the US and the time of Obama's birth.

They might do that, but they certainly haven't yet.

You think the same people who have denied release of what until fairly recently was an open public record, are going to stoop to provide a legal stipulation at a Court Martial they'd much rather ignore?

[El Gato]

I believe that Barack Obama stipulated that his father was not an American citizen when he wrote the book “Dreams From My Father” about his father’s birth and life in Kenya in 1995.

That's hardly a legal stipulation that court could take judicial notice of. Anyone can write a book and say whatever they want. Now it's probably true, but it's not been legally stipulated or demonstrated.

[El Gato]

I thought Obama had admitted his father was a Keynan.

Not in a Court of Law he hasn't.