NATO to meet Tuesday on Gaza flotilla raid by Israel

The Economic Times ^ | May 31 2010

[worst-case scenario]

BRUSSELS: NATO will hold emergency talks on Tuesday at Turkey's behest after the deadly Israeli raid on a flotilla of aid-carrying ships bound for Gaza, spokesman James Appathurai said.

"Planning is underway for a meeting... at the request of the Turkish authorities tomorrow afternoon," Appathurai said. The talks will gather ambassadors from the 28 NATO member countries at its Brussels HQ.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters in Santiago, Chile, that his government was demanding the NATO council gather to address a crisis that has already seen Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu cut short a visit to Canada and Washington where he had been due to meet with US President Barack Obama on Tuesday.

[MaxMax]

Imagine how Iran would have treated this situation. Boats would be sunk,
and any survivors would have been tried as spies then executed.

[ChurtleDawg]

Israel ate s-— on this. What a horrible idea.

on top of this being a terrible idea strategically and diplomatically-— tactically the raid was carried out terribly. You see Israeli commandos coming down the ropes one at a time onto the deck which is loaded with hostiles. If they had done this properly, and attacked with surprise and a large number of soldiers and subdued the hostile crowd immediately with non lethal force, it is possible that no one would have been killed.

[Pox]

They have attacked ships in international waters in the past, so what is your point?

Israel had every right to do what it did, regardless of the “technicalities” of International waters vs Territorial waters.

[darkside321]

The INTENT was the same. The flotilla PLANNED this in advance. They were surprised in the darkness of the night by an advanced opponent. The IDF were attacked as they dropped to the deck to inspect the vessel with less than lethal weapons. Look at the videos. Look at all of them. The IDF has documented their actions and the actions of the flotilla for all to see. Now let’s see who lies.

---

I guess most people don´t care who lies.
Fact is Israel violated international law.
This will not go away no matter who lies.
(and more important there was no need to violate this law)
Fact is what Israel has done is piracy under international law. And this is just stupid!!!!
Lets assume they had arms and fires at the IDF.
No problem as long the IDF raids them in teritorial waters.
(they have every right to kill anyone who attacks them).
But in international waters the IDF is the attacker and there for the crew has any right to defend themselfes.
So even if they had fired on the IDF israel would be the bad guy because they attacked them first.
And sorry to say but this is beyond stupid especially when you only have to wait a few hours and then the actions of the IDF would have been perfectly legal even if they would have killed every single person on this ship.

[Pox]

Methinks you've seen one too many hollywood movies with unrealistic scripts.

[Pox]

Again, nonsense. Israel had every right to do what they did, and every right to do it where they did. You may believe otherwise, but I doubt you are correct in your assumptions.

You’re thinking in “legalese”, which is always a bad idea when you are engaged in war, and make no mistake, this is a part of the war that Israel is currently fighting.

[ChurtleDawg]

what gives Israel the right to attack unarmed ships in International waters?

[ZOOKER]

It will go badly for Israel if it turns out that there were no weapons or the like aboard these ships.

I'm afraid that's exactly what will happen. Hamas and the flotilla organizers made it quite clear what they intended to do - there was intense media coverage - there was immediate provocation and violence. They expected to be boarded, in fact they counted on it.

If the terrorists have their way, Israel will be chastened and reviled, and the next wave of ships won't be searched. Those ships will be packed to the rafters with weapons.

[monkeyshine]

Your screen name is the Turkish game plan.

Turkey wants to use its membership in NATO to create if not a conflagration, then a blockade or other counter-measure to get at Israel. The idea that Israel and Turkey can repair their relations is all but dead.

I sure hope NATO - including our President - don’t fall for it.

[Pox]

Is boarding the ship headed for their territorial waters, after being instructed not to attempt to run the blockade, actually an “attack” under “International Law”? If you believe so, please post the relevant treaties that Israel has signed that would indicate your belief is accurate.

[monkeyshine]

They were headed for Gaza. Israel interdicted and asked the captain to drop the goods at Israeli port of Ashdod for inspection and re-transmission to Gaza. The captain said “Negative, Negative... our destination is Gaza”. The captain made his intent to break the blockade clear. He was warned he would be boarded. The ship was boarded and the IDF were ambushed one by one as they rappelled downward.

Israel made several errors but I don’t think that is one of them. FWIW, Wikipedia says Israel claims 12 nautical miles as its territorial water, along with scores and scores of other countries. Not sure where the ship was at the time.

[darkside321]

Again, nonsense. Israel had every right to do what they did, and every right to do it where they did. You may believe otherwise, but I doubt you are correct in your assumptions.

You’re thinking in “legalese”, which is always a bad idea when you are engaged in war, and make no mistake, this is a part of the war that Israel is currently fighting.

---

No! Again this is the main problem. Israel does not have every right to do what they did. If so the outrage would be only located in the ME (because they are allways outraged no matter what Israel does). In fact this is the main problem of Israel more and more people start to think that Israel just don´t cares what they think or that they can act beyond international law.
And this is a serious treat because Israel is not a super power (a super power might get away with it because no one is willing to confront them because of this even they think they are wrong). But Israel needs the so called “western world” to survive and there for it´s really “unwise” to act this way. Without support Israel is dead! But right now it looks like that “Israel” says we don´t care about what you think we will do what ever we want. And this is dangerous for them because the moment the world say ok then do it and face the result is the moment when Israel will find itself in a world of pain.
Just to remeber Israel has no seat at the UN. Israel doesn´t has the money nor the people to produce all kind of weapons they need to protect themself alone...
So the moment the “world” drops Israel they are ruined.
But unfortunately they don´t get it.
At least it looks like they are doing everything to enshure that they will get dropped.

[Pox]

BS! What gives those who planned and executed the “flotilla” the right to attempt passage through the blockade?

Your reasoning assumes that Israel is a bully and doesn't know what it's doing, or at the least is acting out of malice and I'm of the opinion your full of crap.

Their hand was forced and that is obviously clear. You say that Israel has not the right to do what they did. I say PROVE IT!

[darkside321]

Just give the world a few days. Israel will be “fuc+ed” this is for shure. I´m not saying that i feel glad about this but i really belive that this will happen.
Again i´m not pro Israel nor am i pro palestinian.
I just try to give you the impression of the ordinary people in europe! And if you think that this will have no effect ok fine. But i really believe that Israel has screwed it up BIG time these days. And there will be consequences for Israel because of this. Has nothing to do how i feel in personal. But i do believe that this will happen. Just an observation of what has happened in the last day.

[NoLibZone]

We celebrate Memorial Day.

Daily Kos celebrates Flotilla day.

[Pox]

I never said that Israel would come through this unscathed, but I have pointed out that their hand was being forced in this situation.

I'm well aware of the attitudes of “ordinary” Europeans. I expect nothing less than what I am already hearing from the “old world”, especially as Europe is quickly being flooded with anti-semitic “Asians”. Although I only lived in Europe for 3 years over 2 decades ago, it's no surprise to me at all.

[mainsail that]

Israel admitted it was in Int Waters:
“Israel is a sovereign state and cannot accept the undermining of its sovereignty. Israel has stopped ships in international waters before and when ships refuse to accede to warnings and obey instructions, we have the right to board them under international law.”

Add the fact that they were delivering ‘humanitarian aid’ and you have a PR disaster. You can support Israel and admit that they screwed up, everyone does. Israel’s Gaza blockade isn’t that popular in the world, honey and spices for example are banned http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/28/AR2010052800212_2.html

If the soldiers had no legal right (however that’s decided) to board the ship it follows that the ‘activists’ had the right to defend themselves.

[TigersEye]

Are there any NATO Convention articles about member nations siding with terrorists and running pirate ships for their aid?

[darkside321]

You say that Israel has not the right to do what they did. I say PROVE IT

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I have to prove nothing! Israel has to prove.
Newsflash most of europe hates Israel,
So you have 500 (eu) million against 7 millionn.
You think most of european politicians are against Israel? They are not i guarantee you that they are way better than the “european” public. Most of the public hates Israel anyway (it´s the politicians who try to paint a difficult picture) This is reality. So now take this. Remeber america is not europe. Most people here hate that we do trade with Israel anyway. So now guess how wonderfull the last Israeli action will fit into this? Again i´m talking about the majority. Has nothing to do with my personal kind of view.

[Hardraade]

Israel attacked by NATO member. But then, NATO has been used before to mount muslim attacks.