Approaching apocalypse: Will Obama docs surface?

World Net Daily ^ | April 20, 2010 | Bob Unruh

[Smokeyblue]

The defense attorney for an officer refusing Army orders until Barack Obama documents his eligibility to be commander in chief has hinted that the president's proof of eligibility could come up during the course of the government's prosecution of his client.

"In the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), just as you would expect, criminal defendants have the process of the court, for subpoenas and depositions under the rules that are prescribed," attorney Paul Jensen said during an interview today on the radio show of G. Gordon Liddy.

Jensen was on the program with his client, Lt. Col. Terry Lakin, who posted a YouTube video inviting his own court-martial because he believes military orders under an ineligible president are illegal, and then posted a letter telling Obama that it's up to him to provide the proof.

"I'm not going to say what we are going to do other than we are going to do what you would want us to do," Jensen said.

He specifically avoided broadcasting any specific defense strategy for the case that is developing against Lakin – confirming that the officer was told in writing on Monday that he now has been "flagged" by the military and charges are expected to be filed soon.

[GOPsterinMA]

Bore me, Impy? Hells no! It stimulates my brain, unlike most of the drivel out there.

It is fascinating.

[little jeremiah]

He did not have a US passport until he bacame an IL senator. So what countr’s passport did he hold when he traveled in 1981 to Pakistan and Indonesia? That’ll nail him right there.

[Natural Born 54]

The records of those visits, as you know, were destroyed during the so-called break-in so I don’t know how it would ever be proved. The old argument that he couldn’t travel to Pakistan on a U.S. passport was debunked - there was just an advisory against U.S. citizens traveling there at the time, not a ban on travel. So, while you are correct, the evidence is probably gone.

[little jeremiah]

The evidence cannot be all gone. Therea are recoverable hard drives, for one thing, there are people who know and may have copies of their own, there are records of entry and exit from not only the US but the other countries.

There is too much paper for it all to have disappeared. Way too much.

And the very fact that he admitted he travelled to Paki and Indo and IIRC also Hyderabad, India (there is a Hyderabad, Paki so it’s a little unclear perhaps about that part), and definitely did not have a US passport at that time, at least in the name Barack Obama, then he obviously used a passport of another country.

He also used another passport when he traveled as a child from HI to Indo and back again. But the lack of US passport when traveling as an adult is 100% damning even without the records in hand.

[El Gato]

Agreed. She posted the ad and had a BC done in absentia for the kid.

If she had the BC done in absentia, actually fraudulently, then the ad would follow automatically.

It's all down to the BC, long form/original, as far as place of birth goes.

However the short form contains enough, or almost enough, information to declare him not a Natural Born Citizen. That's the identity of his father. The only missing information is proof that his father was not a US citizen, then or ever.

[STARWISE]

“Sometime between June 10, 2009 and June 18, 2009 the state of Hawaii changed its long-standing rule on what documents and data were necessary to prove a birth in Hawaii for the Dept of Hawaiian Homelands, thereby upgrading the apparent status of the Certification of Live Birth which it had formerly regarded as insufficiently probative. Why?

A family that I am acquainted with has a child who was born in Hawaii in December 2008. They filled out and mailed in a form to the Dept of Health, as did their doctor. In return the Dept sent them in the first week of June, 2009, the same computer-generated form that last year on the Daily Kos and subsequently on the Obama campaign web site was called a “Certification of Live Birth”. The form that this family received this year is identical in format to the Certification of Live Birth on the Daily Kos web site with one exception: the title at the top of the form.

On June 12, 2008 the title for this form was Certification of Live Birth. The title for the form that this family received in the first week of June 2009 is Certificate of Live Birth.

I called The Dept of Health and confirmed that the title of the form had been changed. The bureaucrat that I spoke to said the change had been made “recently”, but could not or would not tell me when.

Sometime between June 12, 2008 and the first week of June 2009 the Hawaiian Dept of Health changed the title of this abbreviated form from “Certification of Live Birth” to “Certificate of Live Birth“. Why?”

http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=7263

[STARWISE]

Ooops - missed one related paragraph to above

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The use of the word “Certificate” rather than “Certification” makes the form feel somewhat more like a traditional birth certificate than the “Certification of Live Birth” that the Daily Kos website and subsequently the Obama campaign posted on the Internet even though, like the “Certification“, it also lacks any information about the hospital, doctor, or midwife.

This renaming of the document will be very convenient for the Hawaiian Dept of Health in future stonewalling should any legal pressure be brought against them to produce Obama’s “Certificate of Live Birth”.

Instead of producing the original “Certificate of Live Birth”, they will produce the “Certification of Live Birth” form that the Dept of Health has now renamed a “Certificate of Live Birth” and claim that they are doing so “in accordance with state policies and procedures” in the words of the Dept’s Director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino.”

[STARWISE]

Excellent point:

~~~~~~~~~~

"The language requiring that candidate demonstrate that they are a “natural born citizen” was added by GOP state Rep. Judy Burges.

Great addition. The birth certificate alone does not prove Natural Born Citizenship.

Both parents must have been US citizens at the time of birth.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2497556/posts?page=12#12

[Labyrinthos]

The colonel will not be seeing those documents. The trial judge advocate will present that the United States House of Rep and the U.S. Senate counted the electoral ballots. Each of which was duly accepted and submitted by each of the 50 states. The election results were certified on JAN 6 2010 and that is the end of the matter. The Military judge will not accept the need to go beyond the acceptance and certification by Congress. Nice try though.

That is the correct legal response. As I have written on many occassions here, nearly every state has a process for challenging the qualifications of a candidate at the time the candidate's name is placed upon the ballot, not after the election is held and certified. This process applies to all federal, state, and local offices. The challenges to a candidate's qualifications are required to take place before the election because elections are expensive and certainty is required to produce an orderly result and transition.

[Red Steel]

the Hawaiian Dept of Health changed the title of this abbreviated form from “Certification of Live Birth” to “Certificate of Live Birth“. Why?”

It is patently obvious now as it was when we first discussed this change in 2008 that the DoH wants to muddy the waters of distinction between a Certificate v. Certification for the benefit of Obama. One of the many reasons that have been documented over the last 2 years to why the Hawaiian DoH cannot be trusted.

[rxsid]

HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html

Factcheck.org goes on to say this about Obama Sr., Jr. and the British Nationality Act of 1948:

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

 

Even the modern day State Department rules discusses the problems associated with dual citizenship:

7 FAM 081: U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality:

(e)While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Dual nationality may hamper efforts by the U.S. Government to provide diplomatic and consular protection to individuals overseas. When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person.

...

the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that dual nationality is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both." See Kawakita v. United States, 343 U.S. 717 (1952).

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86563.pdf

So, back to the question: "HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?"
It can't. Of course not. Yet, right there, on his campaign web site F.T.S., it's stated that a foreign government "governed" Barry from birth and the reason it did, was that Barry inherited that foreign citizenship by way of his foreign national father (no matter where he was born), a fact backed up by Factcheck.org. Assuming, of course, that Sr. was his legal father at birth.
How, then, could he possibly be a "Natural Born Citizen" of the U.S.?
Barry Soetoro, the divided citizen at birth!

Barack Obama a/k/a Barry Soetoro *	NOT Obama / Soetoro
* This assumes HI birth.

http://www.jeffersonsrebels.blogspot.com

Furthermore:  Hawaii's Territorial Law, Chapter 57 - "VITAL STATISTICS, I", shown beginning pg 23 of 29, (the law in effect in 1961) allowed the parents (or grandparents or other relative) of baby's born anywhere in the world to be eligible to apply for a Hawaiian birth certificate. A mailed-in form (without mention of a hospital, doctor, or midwife) signed by one of his grandparents (who forged the parent signature(s)) would have been enough to set up a birth record and a birth certificate at the Dept of Health. The Dept of Health would (presumably) then have automatically sent the names of the parents, their address as given on the mailed-in form , the gender of the child, and the date of birth to the Honolulu Advertiser and Star-Bulletin. The address given for the parents in the newspaper announcements is actually, however, the August 1961 home address of Obama’s maternal grandparents Stanley and Madelyn Dunham [6085 Kalanianaole Highway], and not the 1961 home address of Barack Obama, Sr. [625 11th Ave].) This notification would then have automatically generated the newspaper announcements. (This was the practice of the Honolulu Advertiser and Star-Bulletin at the time).

Bottom line: Even IF (big IF) he was born in HI, he inherited his father's foreign citizenship as well, making him a US citizen by US law and the subject of the crown of her majesty the Queen of England by inheritance and England's law. He could not be considered a Natural Born Citizen as known by and as intended by the framers.

[little jeremiah]

Sickening that an entire state health department is the vassal of the usurper president.

butter, you probably know this detail but just in case you don’t, a courtesy ping.

[Natural Born 54]

You are right of course about records being elsewhere such as other countries but those records might be very difficult to get. Would Pakistan help the U.S. or Obama? The very fact that other countries who are not necessarily our friends would be in a position to hold those records over BO’s head is a really good example of why the president needs to be a natural born citizen - and one who has been truthful about his past.

By the way, has it been stated by BO or his people that he did not have a U.S. passport at the time? If so, it is probably one of those instances where it was stated that he applied for a passport as an adult (travel for the Senate) and that was his first passport. Then somewhere else, either earlier (his book) or later, he referred to his travel to Pakistan, Indonesia and India (the latter was to visit the home of an Indian student at Occidental, IIRC). The discrepancy becomes evident when you look at the two set of statements, is that right? One of the hazards of creating a big lie.

[etraveler13]

The biggest is timing. He travelled to Indonesia and Pakistan in 1981, he became a senator in 1989. Senators are required to geta special passport for Diplomats. Also in 1980 when Soetoro and Ann divorced, Obama was 19, and travelled after leaving Occidental, and before attending college in the fall. He was mentioned in the divorce proceedings on Page one item 3, as needing assistance for education. Only his mother asked for her name to be changed back to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama. Timing might be coincidence, but when he entered Columbia, he changed from Barry to Barak, people who knew him never knew the name Obama, but did know Soetoro, but..nothing official, just comments in the Occidental Alumi section online.

As for the passport, Curiosity and Lucysmom have correctly pointed out, that we just don’t know positively that he travelled on an Indonesian, Kenyan, or US passport, or that he NEVER has a US passport, only that he needed a new Diplomatic Passport when he becamed a Senator for Illinois.
So circumstantial evidence is all we have until the right lawyer, files the right way, for a judge to allow discovery.

[butterdezillion]

Only trouble is, Hawaii statute says that a birth certificate has to have all the items required by the standard US certificate. They can say the shorter version is what they print out when somebody asks for a birth certificate but the fact of the matter is that even now, with the information being transmitted electronically from the hospital to the HDOH, the ACTUAL ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE (the record of birth) has to have all that other information.

And according to the HDOH administrative rules a person can get ALL that information - including the confidential medical portion - if they specifically request it for themselves.

This is the very issue I was confronting the HDOH about when they decided to edit out some of my e-mails from the communications history. They edited out the parts where I explained that the administrative rules refer to signatures and to the “medical portion”, and the statute requires everything that’s on the US standard BC.

I’ve asked them for a blank birth certificate which fulfills all the requirements either stated or implied in both the statute and the rules. They say they’ve already provided it, but all they’ve provided is a blank COLB with a couple extra items added. (It had to be different than the COLB because they had already sent me a blank COLB when I asked for a blank copy of the “abbreviated birth certificate” referred to in the administrative rules.)

It infuriates me that they are making this up as they go along, based on what they think they have to do to answer a “vexatious requestor”. We don’t want to know where they’re pulling this stuff from.

[humblegunner]

Do You get your Paycheck from OBAMA-SOROS, INC.?

So anyone who does not fall for the BC bullshit is paid by Soros?

Really?

A supporter of Obama because they don't believe a conspiracy theory?

Really?

You may be retarded, please get checked before posting more.

[True Republican Patriot]

Hello! Looks like You arent here any longer?

[humblegunner]

Looks like You arent here any longer?

Looks like you are mistaken.

[Natural Born 54]

There’s some interesting background on Hawaii here in this report, particularly the banking connection via Grandma and the role Hawaii may have played in this whole communist takeover that goes well beyond foisting the usurper Obama on the country. Follow the links on Grandma and banking. Don’t waste time reading the thread ‘cause there’s not much there. The article and its related links are worth scanning. (there’s a link to save the PDF if you want it) It doesn’t get any more corrupt than Hawaii, not even Chicago.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2497690/posts?page=1

[mad_as_he$$]

Back in that time (and still today in someplace) you could get a birth announcement printed by simply submitting an announcement to the paper. It is not clear to me that the paper got it's information from the vital records dept or from Grandma.

My own birth announcement was published in my Mother's home town newspaper 400 miles from where I was born the next day.