I almst got to see a real one in Scotland, but the hanger was closed for maintenance and the Spitfire had been moved. It's the plane to die for.LOL.
Posted on 04/20/2010 11:26:05 AM PDT by FredDardick
It looks like somebody is going to have to update the Waco Siege page on Wikipedia. Apparently the whitewashed history that former President Bill Clinton would like us to believe regarding the 1993 federal assault on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, is missing important details regarding his own personal involvement.
In response to Bill Clinton’s highly publicized linking of the Tea Party movement to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing in an op-ed piece for the New York Times, former Clinton adviser Dick Morris disclosed on Monday that it was Clinton himself, and not Attorney General Janet Reno, as Americans have been led to believe for the past 17 years, who called the shots during the 1993 botched invasion that led to the death of seventy-six people.
(Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...
Then what was the point of this comment? Is your goal simply obfuscation?
Well that explains the flames,..... yup nice Freeper page!
The Cessna is not like the Lear , right?
That's a helluva thing to have to say.
Clinton required to think and talk about a lot of things that we never thought we'd have to think or talk about.
And, now...
Besides the converting to full auto, weren’t there some bogus drug charges?
Never heard of shaped charges, I see.
I think that was his point. A truck bomb is not a shaped charge. post #192
I guess you get {{{crickets chirping}}} to that post.
Right - the Lear is just an animated gif ....thought it looked neat ... have several doing some aerobatics ....
That was made after you requested a link and with the links I provided.
I almst got to see a real one in Scotland, but the hanger was closed for maintenance and the Spitfire had been moved. It's the plane to die for.LOL.
Did T apologize to you?
Accusations of child abuse and statutory rapeKoresh himself denied all allegations of polygamy and child abuse in public interviews. The popular media, disaffected Davidians, and spokespersons for the US government, however, tell sordid tales of Koresh's personal life.
It has been alleged that Koresh advocated polygamy for himself, and asserted that he was married to several female residents of the small community.[1][6] Some former members of the cult also alleged that Koresh felt he could claim any of the females in the compound as his.[1][6]
The 1993 U.S. Department of Justice report sets out allegations of historical child sexual and physical abuse. ATF Special Agent David Aguilera had interviewed former Branch Davidian Jeannine Bunds, who claimed that Koresh had fathered at least fifteen children with various women and young girls at the compound. According to Bunds, some of the girls who had babies fathered by Koresh were as young as 12 years old. She said she had personally delivered seven of these children. Bunds also claims that Koresh would annul all marriages of couples who joined his cult. He then had exclusive sexual access to the women. He would also have regular sexual relations with young girls.[11] In his book, James Tabor states that Koresh acknowledged on a videotape sent out of the compound during the standoff that he had fathered more than 12 children by several "wives", some of whom were as young as 12 or 13 when they became pregnant.[12] DNA testing of the women and children in the video who died in the subsequent fire confirmed that some of the children were his.[citation needed] On March 3, 1993, during negotiations to secure the release of the remaining children, Koresh advised the Negotiation Team that: "My children are different than those others" referring to his direct lineage, versus those children previously released.
At the time, in Texas, the age of parental consent for a minor to marry was 14, as was the age for consent to engage in sexual relations. In the documentary film, Waco: The Rules of Engagement (long version), Jack Harwell, Sheriff of McLennan County, stated: "You have to have proof to go into court . . . Keep in mind, too, that most of the girls who were involved were at least 14 years old and 14 year olds get married with parental consent. So if their parents were there and letting things happen in the way of sexual activities and what have you with their 14 year old kids, you have common law husbands and wives. Uh, I don’t say that I agree with that and that I approve of it. But at the same time, if parents are there and they’re giving parental consent, we have a problem with that in making a case."
Kiri Jewell, daughter of Branch Davidian Sherri Jewell, claimed in testimony before Congress in 1995 that she was sexually molested at the age of 10 by Koresh, who then read to her from the Bible. She originally related the incident in a 1992 custody battle, and the judge ordered that she be kept away from Koresh and Mount Carmel.[13] While conceding that Jewell's testimony may be true, the attorney of Steve Schneider, Koresh's right-hand man, expressed doubts about the veracity of her evidence. In his appearance at the House hearings on Waco, Jack B. Zimmermann stated: "There’s been doubts about contradictory statements that she’s made in the past. Now, it may be 100 percent true."
A sick bunch of people, no doubt, but the only allegation of illegal child molestation isn't based on the most credible testimony. It wasn't the basis of the warrant in any case.
A more relevant look at how allegations of child abuse were used by the Clinton administration to justify the actual burning down of the compound is here...
Child Abuse at Wacoby David B. Kopel
According to a later Justice Department Report, sometime in the week preceding the April 19 FBI tank assault, "someone made a comment in one of the meetings that Koresh was beating the babies." Attorney General Reno asked the person who made the comment if he was sure. She recalls that she was given, "the clear impression that, at some point since FBI had assumed command and control for the situation, they had learned that the Branch Davidians were beating the babies."
Who told the Attorney General about child abuse? Webster Hubbell, the second-ranking official at Justice at the time, later stated, "I remember it [the comment] specifically, but I can't remember who said it."
A few days later, after all the children had died, Attorney General Reno explained she approved the FBI assault because "babies were being beaten." White House spokesman George Stephanopoulos concurred that there was "absolutely no question that there was overwhelming evidence of child abuse in the Waco compound."
Not really. As FBI Director William Sessions acknowledged, there was "no contemporaneous evidence" of child abuse; given the many FBI listening devices inside the Mount Carmel Center, Sessions' conclusion appears accurate. As the FBI well knew, Koresh, having been wounded so severely on February 28 by a BATF sniper that he thought we was going to die soon, was in no position to physically or sexually abuse anyone in the subsequent weeks.
For what?
Read the freakin search warrant. It's readily available on line. It had NOTHING to do with illegal or illicit drugs. The poster is wrong. Nothing is more irritating when sanctimony is based on factual inaccuracy.
If only. Fact don't matter. Only their perceptions of reality. You could staple a copy of the warrant - a warrant that clearly is devoid of drug references - to their forehead, they wouldn't read. And, if they did read, they wouldn't believe it.
T: Funny, the warrant was based on illicit drug use not weapons charges or child abuse. They didn’t even have hearsay evidence of that they made it up out of whole cloth.
O: No, the search warrant was based entirely on suspicion of federal firearms violations. Read a book.
T: Bull! You know absolutely squat about Waco or the OKC bombing.
What happened in Waco?
Midway through the stalemate, the ATF suddenly announced that the Branch Davidians were manufacturing methamphetamines in a secret commune laboratory. No one bothered to ask, first of all, where this information came from, and second, what it had to do with anything. The ATF has no jurisdiction to enforce laws against drugs. Nor does the ATF have any authority to nab child molesters, another charge that helped demonize Koresh in the national media.
It is likely the drug-lab story was concocted to explain the Bit Brotherish black National Guard helicopters circling over the site in violation of a Texas law that forbids use of state helicopters by federal authorities except in drug cases.
The methamphetamine allegation, significantly, never appeared in any legal document. As on skeptical reporter noted, it's not a crime to lie to the press, but fudging before a judge carries a few consequences.
On the other had, the ATF affidavit filed in applying for the February 28 search warrant was not a model of accuracy. In it, ATF agent Davy Aguilera claims - in what later served as evidence of Koresh's fanaticism - that on April 6, 1992, Koresh warned a Texas Human Services official that he was a "messenger from God" and that when he revealed his true nature, "the riots in Los Angeles would pale in comparison to what was going to happen in Waco, Texas."
Scary stuff, except that when Koresh issued this alleged threat the L.A. riots were still three weeks away.
The ATF also claimed that they had to bust up the Davidians because Koresh, Hitler-style, had been bunkered up in there for weeks. In fact, he ventured into town at least once a week. He had sauntered out to a Waco night spot just two nights before the February attack.
The ATF never officially charged Koresh et al. with anything worse than illegal weapons possession. Five years before, Koresh and six associates were arrested by local police on attempted murder charges. Yet they cooperated fully (and were later acquitted). And how did the Waco sheriffs manage to avert the bloodletting that the federal authorities found ineluctable?
"We treated them like human beings," said Waco D.A. Vic Feazell, "rather than storm-trooping the place."
My apologies, Old Deck Hand, for confusing the many lies the Feds told surrounding the massacre of the Branch Davidians.
Lovely AC. Looks like it could turn pretty tight.
Ever ride in a p51?
I would love just to sit in a Spitfire.
Sat in a Halifax Bomber once,the pilots chair was a glorifed stool with nothing for 5 feet under the peddles. Also boarded a Sunderland flying boat ( sheesh a flying house more like).
I wanted to fly when I was young but made the mistake of staying in college. You are lucky you made the leap.
You've got that right.
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