Posted on 03/22/2010 5:05:06 AM PDT by paythefiddler
this would be a direct way to kill the bill
February 28 Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) with co-sponsers Barry n Hillary in background attempted Bill S. 2678 Children of Military Families Natural Born Citizen Act, to change requirements on the Constitution’s natural born citizenship provision to no avail.
One month later McCaskill is back again w/co-sponsers Barry and Hillary for Resolution 511 declaring John McCain eligible as “both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of his birth...”
I wasn't aware of Senate Bill 2678. Very interesting background to the SR511.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your overall point, however there are three pretty decent sources that tend to prove McCain was indeed born in the PCZ on the submarine base in its hospital. This is three sources more than Obama has been able to produce.
I think you meant your reply to someone else?
I was just making a comment about the destruction of the Constitution. I stay out of the detailed legal stuff, due to being a numbskull!
;-)
Yeah sure you don't believe it. /sarcasm
If they're right then the Court will overturn the law and the problem is solved. If the Court rules the law is Constitutional then the states have no choice but comply per the Supremacy Clause in Article VI which you claim to have read. The 9th and 10th Amendments don't enter in to it.
You certainly appear to argue that the Amendments don't Amend the Constitution or want it to be.
And for being dumb NS, I'd like to see that put to a vote on FR. You would take the rat donkey butt prize.
I think the failure of traction of the eligibility issue cannot be explained with normal logic.
I strongly suspect Obama was born in Hawaii, but benefits from the suspicion he created by hiding the details. Obama has deliberately flaunted his “right” to hide his origins while he devastates millions of families to achieve goals common to the far left. I've known lots of them up close, including several in his administration. The callous disregard for the damage he is causing is frightening because I suspect he wants a real revolution - one which cannot be undone in a couple of elections.
I believe that he also has plans for the possibility that our go-along-to-get-along judiciary may take the Kerchner v. Congress case, or even the Quo Warranto case filed by Taitz.
Click the link at #127
There was a hospital on the base in 1936. It's mentioned very clearly in the newspaper announcement (see link), and I've seen independent corroboration online from another person who was born there. As far as the market for forgeries, I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. I've seen the alleged certificates that were presented in the Hollander case and both showed multiple signs of manipulation.
link to PDF: See page 3
this issue just doesn’t go away.I wonder if the truth will ever be known and who will reveal it?
ping for later
"Because the Canal Zone was a “no man’s land,” in the words of Representative Sparkman, in 1937 Congress passed a statute, the Act of Aug. 4, 1937 (now codified at 8 U.S.C. § 1403(a)) granting citizenship to “[a]ny person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904” who had at least one U.S. citizen parent. This Act made Senator McCain a U.S. citizen before his first birthday. But again, to be a natural born citizen, one must be a citizen at the moment of birth. Since Senator McCain became a citizen in his eleventh month of life, he does not satisfy this criterion, is not a natural born citizen, and thus is not “eligible to the Office of President.”
Now Chin is someone who states, like all Obama defenders, that Wong Kim Ark, written by the justice appointed by the other illigitimate president, Chester Arthur, is the authoritative decision on citizenship. He studiously avoids any mention of the many cases in which natural born citizenship was clearly defined, even when Gray cited Minor v. Happersett in Wong Kim Ark. That might suggest that Chin was prepared to question McCain's eligibility had he been credited with enough votes to claim office (my certainty that we have no way validate vote counts are sneaks in). But he does argue well with lots of citations. McCain has had 5 Congressional attempts to make him eligible and, with help from Democrats, managed to get two law suits dismissed before discovery. Sound familiar?
There was a photocopy of the McCain's birth certificate, though given Obama’s success with the ploy, and given that Obama and McCain shared legal defense teams from Kirkland and Ellis, perhaps they will now declare the old birth certificate a forgery? But why should we care?
It really doesn't matter. Our founders never included the extension of natural born citizenship to children of military born off of our soil. The legislature certainly thought about it, enough to put that provision into the Naturalization Act of 1790. It could not alter the common law definition stated so clearly by delegate to the Virginia Ratification Convention, and subsequent Chief Justice John Marshall, who cited Vattel, and was reversed in 1795.
The rejection of that bill could hardly make it more clear that our legislature did not want that extension “reputed born on the soil” in our Constitution. As far as I know (and that isn't all that far) there has been no amendment attempted to “fix” the issue of children of diplomats and military not being natural born citizens. They are certainly citizens.
I have guessed why our founders might have been cautious. We have had state department personnel become Arabists after spending some years on assignment. Their children, raised, as for example Valerie Jarrett was in Iran, or Barry in Indonesia during formative years, may have had their allegiances compromised. Becoming president is not a right. Our founders did their best to minimized the chance of someone wishing to change us from within becoming president. We have forsaken the machinery they build to protect us.
But that is not the issue is it? McCain, if we really believe vote counts, did not win the elections. If we manage to return our governance to one based upon the Constitution, an amendment to the natural born citizen provision could be attempted - for the twenty fifth time! I don't get the impression that your concern over this is intended to distract from the real problem, but it does. Our problem is explaining to those with little or no understanding of the Constitution why Obama, born of an alien father, is ineligible.
I didn't cite Fact Check. As for the Washington Post, I'm not sure what you're insinuating ... that they forged the 1936 newspaper clipping??
As I recall the base hospital, the hospital being used until a real hospital with an operating facility was completed was the hospital less than a quarter mile from the boundary of of the base. The so-called Coco Solo 'hospital' was a sick bay.
The evidence says the hospital was on the base and I'm aware of one other birth that was reported to have occurred there, independent of anything to do with John McCain.
Professor Gabriel Chin examined jurisdictional law affecting The Canal Zone in his lengthy analysis "Why Senator McCain Cannot Be President..." came to the conclusion that the Canal Zone fell into a gap, and that McCain was actually a naturalized citizen as a result.
There's no question there are statutory citizenship parameters applying to Panama, but the same is true of whether McCain was born on or off base. McCain has nothing to gain by claiming to be born on the base, if he wasn't, as he still would be a statuory citizen at birth, which most people assume, is the same as natural born citizen.
Our founders never included the extension of natural born citizenship to children of military born off of our soil.
I don't know that I agree with this. At the time our country was founded, we didn't have U.S. military bases around the world, so it's not like the founders would have reason to think about such citizenship issues. I do think they would have been influenced by Blackstone: "Yet the children of the king's embassadors born abroad were always held to be natural subjects: for as the father, though in a foreign country, owes not even a local allegiance to the prince to whom he is sent ..." and by Vattel, "For the same reasons also, children born out of the country, in the armies of the state, or in the house of its minister at a foreign court, are reputed born in the country; for a citizen who is absent with his family, on the service of the state, but still dependent on it, and subject to its jurisdiction, cannot be considered as having quitted its territory." I see no evidence to believe that the founders would NOT have considered the children born out of the country to its military families would not be considered natural born.
I don't get the impression that your concern over this is intended to distract from the real problem, but it does.
Nonsense. The truth is never a distraction.
Ah yes, you are correct, it was “Fact Checker”.
“Did they forge the 1936 Newspaper?” While it is irrelevant, it may be the usual sort of report generated by a hospital and sent to the local papers, as was the case for Obama, regardless of where he was born.
But as with many trolls, your comment about statutory citizenship “There's no question there are statutory citizenship parameters applying to Panama, but the same is true of whether McCain was born on or off base. McCain has nothing to gain by claiming to be born on the base, if he wasn't, as he still would be a statutory citizen at birth, which most people assume, is the same as natural born citizen.” reveals your intent. Most people don't know the meaning of either term, and most here would assume no such thing.
Yes he does have something to gain by claiming to have been born on the base. Few know the details of Panama's unique jurisdictional problems. Tribe, Olson, Leahy, and whomever else contributed to SenRes.511 repeatedly claimed “because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone.” To those who don't understand citizenship requirements, which are quite complex, and frequently changing, it sounds convincing.
But even if there had been a functioning hospital in the middle of the base, McCain would not have been born on our soil. There might be a question if he had been born in an Embassy, but natural born citizenship would require a Constitutional amendment in either case.
Statutory citizens, citizens by law, are never natural born, and only those wishing it were the case would make the illogical claim - or those wishing to confuse others. Someone born a citizen by nature is exactly not a statutory citizen. I suspect you know that.
Also, Professor Chin seems pretty certain that McCain was not born a citizen, but was made one by a law passed when McCain was eleven months old.
The real question, and one which doesn't matter at this point, is whether McCain colluded with Obama to permit them both to run - “You say nothing about my having been made a citizen by statute when I was 11 months old and I'll not point out that having a British subject for a father, and being a British subject at birth makes you ineligible.” There is a high probability that some such understanding occurred.
Sarah Herlihy, associate at Kirkland and Ellis wrote a white paper on the stupidity of the natural born citizen requirement in 2005/2006, and published in the Chicago Kent Law Review. Herlihy worked for a senior partner at Kirkland who sat on McCain's defense and campaign committees. The same firm had another senior partner on Obama’s campaign committee. Just cronyism?
JB Williams
Canada Free Press
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12999
(snip)
Every member of the Supreme Court, every member of congress, every member of the Joint Chiefs, most members of the DOD, CIA, FBI, Secret Service and state run media, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, MSNBC, Fox and print news, knows that Barack Hussein Obama does NOT meet Article II – Section I constitutional requirements for the office he holds. By his own biography, there is NO way he can pass the test. The hard evidence is so far beyond overwhelming, it is ridiculous.
(snip)
But not ONE member of America’s most powerful people will dare confront Obama and his anti-American cabal on the subject. The Constitution does NOT stand.
(snip)
Half of the people you expect to stop this insanity are quiet co-conspirators in the silent coup. The other half is paralyzed by fear, motivated only by political self-preservation.
(Snip)
Americans keep asking what they can do because they see that none of their leaders are doing anything to stop the demise of their beloved country. It’s the right question, because those leaders are NOT going to stop this thing.
(Snip)
WHO WILL SAVE FREEDOM?
A brave few… This is how it was in the beginning, how it has always been and how it will be.
(Snip)
DR. ORLY TAITZ, Phil Berg and Gary Kreep, ALL OF WHOM HAVE MADE DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE A PERSONAL AMBITION, IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY CONSTITUTION LEADERSHIP.
(Snip)
A PRECIOUS FEW, BUT THEY EXIST… and the walls are indeed closing in on Obama and his evil cabal. IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FAIL TO GET BEHIND THESE BRAVE FEW WHO ARE SEEKING PEACEFUL REDRESS, ALL THE PEACEFUL OPTIONS WILL EVAPORATE AS IF THEY NEVER EXISTED. WE WILL RETURN TO A PRE-1776 AMERICA OVERNIGHT..
Do YOU fear Obama?
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12999
___________________________________
A precious few, indeed. Lets get behind those few brave patriots who are out there in the trenches every day working to prove Obama’s inelgibility:
Dr. Orly has put her life’s blood into this fight. SHE HAS MADE DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE A PERSONAL AMBITION, IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY CONSTITUTION LEADERSHIP FROM COWARDLY REPUBLICANS AND THE SCOTUS.
Dr. Orly is the ONLY one out there in the trenches EVERY day hitting Obama on multiple fronts and trying to bring him down. It is reported that she is more than $8,000 in debt from using her own funds for expenses in her flights across the U.S for interviews, speeches, serving papers and meeting with officials.
She has even gone to Isreal and Russia to spread the message about Obama’s inelgibility!
She states the case expertly, including the bc and natural born citizen aspect, when not abused by the U.S. state-controlled media. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132880
Sure, Dr. Orly makes mistakes. We all do. But Dr. Orly is no dummy. How many of us could go to a foreign country, learn 5 languages, establish a successful dental practice, a successful real estate business AND pass the California state bar- one of the hardest in the U.S. to pass?
She may be a ‘mail order’ attorney and not a Harvard lawyer, but she IS an attorney with all the rights and privilages of a Harvard lawyer nevertheless!
The point is; she has the passion, the zeal, the courage of her convictions and the love of America and its freedoms (unlike many of our ‘great’ attorneys and ‘patriots’ who criticize her) that will not let her give up!
She is exhausted. She is nervous. She is frustrated. It is reported that she gets by on 4-5 hours of sleep per night, and her family is very worried about her health- as well as her safety.
She makes mistakes. But she will NOT give up. She will keep on until she gets it right.
Stop tearing her apart. The Obots on FR don’t need our help.
The obots are scared to death of this little lady and her determination. That’s why they come out in droves all over the net on forums, chat rooms and even the national news to attack and ridicule.
Even if Orly NEVER brings Obama to trial, she has almost single handly brought his ineligibility to world wide attention, caused him to spend MILLIONS on lawyers to keep his records hidden AND CAUSED THE MUZZIE TO SWEAT BULLETS!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcChG5pRTOE&feature=player_embedded
I linked to an image of the newspaper clipping. I didn't cite anything said by "Fact Checker." The newspaper listing is consistent with previous published reports.
While it is irrelevant, it may be the usual sort of report generated by a hospital and sent to the local papers, as was the case for Obama, regardless of where he was born.
Obama's newspaper listing didn't include a place of birth. There was a hospital on base where other people were reported to be born. McCain had one of his staffers show a birth certificate to a Washington Post reporter who confirmed that it said he was born in that hospital. The only thing that disputes this is a couple of COLBs dated years later that look even fishier than Obama's.
But as with many trolls, your comment about statutory citizenship “There's no question there are statutory citizenship parameters applying to Panama, but the same is true of whether McCain was born on or off base. McCain has nothing to gain by claiming to be born on the base, if he wasn't, as he still would be a statutory citizen at birth, which most people assume, is the same as natural born citizen.” reveals your intent. Most people don't know the meaning of either term, and most here would assume no such thing.
Sorry, but trying to characterize my comment as having something to do with trolls is plain nonsense. Just admit you were wrong and stop worrying about McCain. It is a distraction you claimed you didn't think was productive.
Statutory citizens, citizens by law, are never natural born, and only those wishing it were the case would make the illogical claim - or those wishing to confuse others.
This incorrect. Some statutory citizens are natural born citizens. Some of the current statutes include the same criteria unique to natural born citizens. As I showed with McCain's circumstances, by traditional definitions, he is a natural born citizen. Obama, not at all. Discussing McCain at all is silly and has nothing in particular to do with Obama, except for the Senate resolution which describes critieria that Obama doesn't qualify under.
JB Williams
Canada Free Press
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12999
(snip)
Every member of the Supreme Court, every member of congress, every member of the Joint Chiefs, most members of the DOD, CIA, FBI, Secret Service and state run media, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, MSNBC, Fox and print news, knows that Barack Hussein Obama does NOT meet Article II – Section I constitutional requirements for the office he holds. By his own biography, there is NO way he can pass the test. The hard evidence is so far beyond overwhelming, it is ridiculous.
(snip)
But not ONE member of America’s most powerful people will dare confront Obama and his anti-American cabal on the subject. The Constitution does NOT stand.
(snip)
Half of the people you expect to stop this insanity are quiet co-conspirators in the silent coup. The other half is paralyzed by fear, motivated only by political self-preservation.
(Snip)
Americans keep asking what they can do because they see that none of their leaders are doing anything to stop the demise of their beloved country. It’s the right question, because those leaders are NOT going to stop this thing.
(Snip)
WHO WILL SAVE FREEDOM?
A brave few… This is how it was in the beginning, how it has always been and how it will be.
(Snip)
DR. ORLY TAITZ, Phil Berg and Gary Kreep, ALL OF WHOM HAVE MADE DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE A PERSONAL AMBITION, IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY CONSTITUTION LEADERSHIP.
(Snip)
A PRECIOUS FEW, BUT THEY EXIST… and the walls are indeed closing in on Obama and his evil cabal. IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FAIL TO GET BEHIND THESE BRAVE FEW WHO ARE SEEKING PEACEFUL REDRESS, ALL THE PEACEFUL OPTIONS WILL EVAPORATE AS IF THEY NEVER EXISTED. WE WILL RETURN TO A PRE-1776 AMERICA OVERNIGHT..
Do YOU fear Obama?
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12999
___________________________________
A precious few, indeed. Lets get behind those few brave patriots who are out there in the trenches every day working to prove Obama’s inelgibility:
Dr. Orly has put her life’s blood into this fight. SHE HAS MADE DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE A PERSONAL AMBITION, IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY CONSTITUTION LEADERSHIP FROM COWARDLY REPUBLICANS AND THE SCOTUS.
Dr. Orly is the ONLY one out there in the trenches EVERY day hitting Obama on multiple fronts and trying to bring him down. It is reported that she is more than $8,000 in debt from using her own funds for expenses in her flights across the U.S for interviews, speeches, serving papers and meeting with officials.
She has even gone to Isreal and Russia to spread the message about Obama’s inelgibility!
She states the case expertly, including the bc and natural born citizen aspect, when not abused by the U.S. state-controlled media. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132880
Sure, Dr. Orly makes mistakes. We all do. But Dr. Orly is no dummy. How many of us could go to a foreign country, learn 5 languages, establish a successful dental practice, a successful real estate business AND pass the California state bar- one of the hardest in the U.S. to pass?
She may be a ‘mail order’ attorney and not a Harvard lawyer, but she IS an attorney with all the rights and privilages of a Harvard lawyer nevertheless!
The point is; she has the passion, the zeal, the courage of her convictions and the love of America and its freedoms (unlike many of our ‘great’ attorneys and ‘patriots’ who criticize her) that will not let her give up!
She is exhausted. She is nervous. She is frustrated. It is reported that she gets by on 4-5 hours of sleep per night, and her family is very worried about her health- as well as her safety.
She makes mistakes. But she will NOT give up. She will keep on until she gets it right.
Stop tearing her apart. The Obots on FR don’t need our help.
The obots are scared to death of this little lady and her determination. That’s why they come out in droves all over the net on forums, chat rooms and even the national news to attack and ridicule.
Even if Orly NEVER brings Obama to trial, she has almost single handly brought his ineligibility to world wide attention, caused him to spend MILLIONS on lawyers to keep his records hidden AND CAUSED THE MUZZIE TO SWEAT BULLETS!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcChG5pRTOE&feature=player_embedded
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