Posted on 01/31/2010 9:16:28 PM PST by narses
"IMO,There is no way the CIA didn’t know about her. Given the black hole of info...there is CIA involvement.
"I am not sure why you believe she was working for the KGB and the CIA didn’t have a clue ...."
Shortly before Stanley Ann got there Indonesia was butchering communist cadres just like her former husband, but they were not touching American citizen wives of US Oil companies, to my knowledge.
She would have had perfect "cover" to act as a KGB agent, although I doubt she was one and did not say that I believe she was working for the KGB. I just said that was more likely than CIA from what I know of the CIA.
Prior to moving to Indonesia she had none of the foreign language experience, foreign living experience, scientific training or foreign policy education that I know the CIA would value from personal experience. Neither did her son, as his brief stay in Indonesia as a child where he never became fluent in the language, wouldn't have impressed the CIA, even if it impressed the Democrats.
And under the 1948 BNA only legitimate or legitimated children are governed by it. Without a formal divorce from Ketzia, BHO II's birth could never be legitimate or legitimated by a Dunham-Obama marriage in HI.
• See Kenya Marriage Act of 1902 paragraph #49:
49. Whoever contracts a marriage under this Act, being at the time married in accordance with native law or custom or in accordance with Mohammedan law to any person other than the person with whom such marriage is contracted, shall be guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.
kenyalaw.org/family/statutes/...?file=The+marriage+act.pdf
• BNA of 1948 Legitimation of persons born out of wedlock:
23.—(1) A person born out of wedlock and legitimated by the subsequent marriage of his parents shall, as from the date of the marriage or of the commencement of this Act, whichever is later, be treated, for the purpose of determining whether he is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies, or was a British subject immediately before the commencement of this Act, as if he had been born legitimate.
(2) A person shall be deemed for the purposes of this section to have been legitimated by the subsequent marriage of his parents if by the law of the place in which his father was domiciled at the time of the marriage the marriage operated immediately or subsequently to legitimate him, and not otherwise.
http://www.uniset.ca/naty/BNA1948.htm
“(2) Subject to the provisions of section twenty-three of this Act, any reference in this Act to a child shall be construed as a reference to a legitimate child; and the expressions “father”, “ancestor” and “descended” shall be construed accordingly.”
http://www.uniset.ca/naty/BNA1948.htm
“Prior to moving to Indonesia she had none of the foreign language experience, foreign living experience, scientific training or foreign policy education that I know the CIA would value from personal experience. Neither did her son, as his brief stay in Indonesia as a child where he never became fluent in the language, wouldn’t have impressed the CIA, even if it impressed the Democrats. “
You really are hung up on this...I repeat...CIA WILL USE ANYONE that suits their purpose for all kinds of things at anytime..anywhere...
Surely you understand that a fisherman with no education off in the wilds can work for the CIA..on an ongoing basis..if it suits their purpose. Men in suits (those that you are hung up on) can travel great lengths to track down someone to work for them if it suits their purpose.
The CIA hatched a plan..and used an uneducated criminal mafioso who has been in and out of prison.....through a cutout....in a plan to kill a foreign head of state....That’s no made up fantasy...It, in fact, happened.
And as a coincidence...someone involved with the Bay of Pigs invasion ,who is now exiled in the US, supposedly said that Obama’s father is a Cuban.
But Ketzia and the Obama tribal area was in the non-Muslim Lake Victoria western part of the country, not coastal more Muslim Mombasa. I haven't seen any claim that Kezia was Muslim. None of her children's names sound Muslim and they don't appear to be living as Muslims, althoug "Roy" once studied at a "madrasah."
From Daily Mail:
"As well as Auma, Kezia has three sons by Barack Snr. Her two youngest, Bernard and Abo, live in Nairobi.
"Bernard sells mechanical parts while Abo runs an international telephone shop.
"Their eldest son Roy studied at a madrasah in Nairobi before moving to the States where he is an accountant.
"Until now, Barack Snr has been portrayed as a bigamist and a drunk."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506338/Barack-Obamas-stepmother-living-Bracknell-reveals-close-bond---mother.html#ixzz0eowsRlC7
Obama Sr's father reportedl only became Muslim as part of an anti-colonial, anti-white political statement by all accounts, not unlike the Nation of Islam concept.
Obama Sr was a raging Marxist, alcohol consumer and reported atheist who seemed more intent on hiding bigamy from his successive wives than public Muslim polygamy, from what I read.
I intended my comments about Stanley Ann to be directed at whether or not she might be a knowning trained agent or asset of either the CIA or KGB, not an incidental or episodic asset.
I am suspicious of your motives for posting now.
There is only one way that there could be this deep black hole of information and that is through the US side...and you should know that if you are as familiar with the CIA as you say you are.
I have no doubt that many different government agencies read FR. At least one , if not more, are probably all over this thread.
I think many people here who have done any research on intelligence, or know anyone who has worked in intelligence, or has worked in intelligence,or just sits down and thinks about it can recognize that the black hole across the board couldn’t happen without whisperings....or flat out threats...from more than just the Chicago Machine.
But carry one believing and trying to further the notion that there is no way the Dunhams worked with the Spooks.
The "black hole" started in earnest with Ayers near 100% authorship of the Obama myth in Dreams. Ayers is hardly CIA! Ayers wife, Bernardine Dohrn was in Cuba getting trained by Cuban intelligence, doubtless under the gaze of the KBG.
http://therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/team-cuba-ayers-dohrn-just-two-political-activists-from-obamas-neighborhood-visited-cuba-in-september-2008/2/
The serious scrubbing and locking of Obama's past didn't begin in earnest until after his 2004 convention speech when the Alinski Appollo project decided to go for broke backing Obama. That scrubbing has been aided and abetted by thee MSM, not US intelligence services, in my view.
Would the CIA or FBI under Bush at the time officially participate in such an endeavor?
I say there is no chance of that whatsoever, although rogue elements of both were actively trying to bring down Bush in coordination with the DNC as can be seen with the Plame crap and false Iran NIE report claiming that Iran wasn't trying to get a nuke weapon.
It could have been a polygamous marriage, as it appears that in 1961, polygamy was not outlawed: http://law.jrank.org/pages/11834/Annulment-Prohibited-Marriage-Prohibited-Marriage.html
It's interesting that folks seem to insist that it was a "bigamous" marriage. Are we to believe the SADO was ignorant enough to not know? Is a polygamous marriage impossible?
If the existing court document is correct, and polygamy was not illegal in 1961 HI, then in the "eyes" of the BNA of 1948, would they not have been involved in a "legal" marriage?
Until ANOTHER court document (presumably arrived at after discovery) proves that the divorce court document contains false information, the state of Hawaii believed they were involved in a legal marriage.
So, let the discovery begin!
Sheesh....
You just don’t get it.
Try here for starters..and use your head.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol12_Ch0501-0588/HRS0572/HRS_0572-0001.htm
Just think. A guy is married to someone else. His country won’t recognize a marriage in the US EVEN IF LEGAL IN THE US (AND IT WASN”T LEGAL).
One or more parties LIE to get the marriage license.
Ann KNEW he was married by the time she got the divorce. SHE KNEW that marriage wasn’t legal.She got a divorce versus annulment for whatever reason...IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY HAD A VALID MARRIAGE THAT CAN”T BE ATTACKED COLLATERALLY AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZED BY BRITISH AND KENYAN LAW AT THE TIME
THERE IS ALL KINDS OF INFORMATION ON THIS IN BRITISH LAW.
BUT HEY,..JUST KEEP BELIEVING WHATEVER YOU WANT.
"It's interesting that folks seem to insist that it was a "bigamous" marriage. Are we to believe the SADO was ignorant enough to not know? Is a polygamous marriage impossible?
"If the existing court document is correct, and polygamy was not illegal in 1961 HI, then in the "eyes" of the BNA of 1948, would they not have been involved in a "legal" marriage?"
rxsid: When I go to the above link I find that HI statute 572-1(3) outlaws bigamous marriages currently. Where do you find that bigamy was legal in HI in 1961? UT was denied entry into the Union until it banned bigamy/polygamy. If HI permitted bigamy/polygamy in 1959, I think it would have been widely reported and statehood opposed until it was banned.
How could SADO know anything of Obama Srs Kenya marriage to Kezia beyond what he chose to tell her? If he didn't tell her, that doesn't make 18-year-old SADO ignorant.
From what I read in the Kenya Marriage Act of 1902, bigamy/polygamy was illegal for all persons including tribal or Muslim marriages and the 1948 BNA only applies to legitimate children of BHO Sr.
Only discovery and litigation on the merits in HI, UK and Kenya would establish whether BHO II was governed by the 1948 BNA and was thus a dual-citizen and subject of the Queen at birth.
Oh, and "his country" was governed by Great Britain at the time, so it would be THEIR laws that would (or would not) recognize a marriage that was (currently, STILL) recognized in the state of Hawaii.
b.t.w. I realize it's part of your very strong personal opinion, but why do you mandate that it was a bigamous marriage and not a polygamous one? Do you have some inside information regarding that? Or...as I suspect, simply your opinion?
"From what I read in the Kenya Marriage Act of 1902, bigamy/polygamy was illegal for all persons including tribal or Muslim marriages"
That's fine. But were not talking about the Kenyan laws here. He wouldn't have inherited his British "citizenship" via their laws anyway, so that's not in play here. Even his F.T.S. web site doesn't cite the Kenyan laws...only the 1948 BNA.
"the 1948 BNA only applies to legitimate children of BHO Sr."
And there in lies the point. Until it's proven in a court of law, that the marriage was illegal (for whatever reason), the state of HI believed it was a legal marriage. We can discuss and argue all we want on FR. That doesn't overrule the divorce document that states otherwise. I, personally, have no idea weather or not they were legally married. I am not SADO, or Sr., so I don't know the "facts" of the issue. Do I think that "chances" are that it probably wasn't legal. Yeah. Probably not. What I do know for a fact though, is what I see in the HI court documents that lists them as being legally married. I also see his campaign web site as saying his "birth status was governed by Great Britain." Well, how could it have done that if they were not legally married?
So, as I've stated before...let the discovery begin so we can get to the truth of the matter!
"Only discovery and litigation on the merits in HI, UK and Kenya would establish whether BHO II was governed by the 1948 BNA and was thus a dual-citizen and subject of the Queen at birth."
Exactly!
Cheers!
The Kenya Marriage Act of 1902 was a UK Colonial law in effect prior to Kenyan independence when Obama was born, so Obama's father would have been under the UK 1948 BNA, not Kenya law.
Are we to believe what Obama's campaign put on Factcheck?
Obama's lawyers were very sneaky when they put the "governed by the 1948 BNA" language on Factcheck. If you look at it again it says:
"As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children."
Obama's lawyers fail to mention that the BNA of 1948 does not apply to illegitimate children of BHO Sr. During the campaign, the romantic color-blind union between Obama's father and his mother wouldn't have seemed so noble if it were an invalid bigamy and his mother a victim of a man with no character. A bigamous marriage would make Obama technically illegitimate...and a unitary citizenship NBC if born in HI with a single US citizen mother, from what I read.
Not that I believe anything in "Dreams" but in dreams Obama/Ayers says that he is most proud of his older brother, Roy Obama (first child of BHO Sr and Kezia) because Roy converted to Islam!
This means that Kezia and Obama Sr. did not raise Roy (or name Roy) as a Muslim as would be expected if Kezia was Muslim or her marriage to BHO Sr. was Muslim as some have tried to claim to justify a supposedly polygamous marriage in Kezia's tribal area of Kenya which not Muslim.
But I am totally with you on trying to gain discovery in HI and, I would add, further authentication of the CPGH BC to the extent possible.
I doubt it was because of the video. you must of said something else.
Bump.
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