Posted on 01/22/2010 8:30:37 AM PST by reaganaut1
SAN FRANCISCO – Lawyers for two couples challenging California's ban on same-sex marriage plan to wrap up their case Friday following the incendiary testimony of a proponent who said he thinks gays are more likely to be pedophiles and that allowing them to wed would lead to the legalization of polygamy and incest.
Hak-Shing William Tam of San Francisco spent five hours testifying Thursday as a hostile plaintiffs' witness to prove that bias toward gays fueled the 2008 campaign to pass the voter-approved measure, known as Proposition 8.
Tam, who was one of five people who signed on as official proponents of the ban and whose names appeared alongside ballot arguments for Proposition 8, acknowledged that he subscribes to beliefs about an alleged link between homosexuality and pedophilia posted on the Internet by a Chinese-American Christian group for which he serves as secretary.
"Do you believe that homosexuals are 12 times more likely to molest children?" attorney David Boies asked.
"Yeah, based on the different literature that I have read," Tam replied.
Earlier in the trial, a Cambridge University professor testified that there is no evidence to suggest that gays are more likely to molest children than heterosexuals. Boies pressed Tam to cite books, articles or authors he had read to substantiate the views, but Tam said he could not remember specifics.
Others involved in promoting Proposition 8 have tried to distance themselves from Tam. During a news conference outside court, lawyer Andy Pugno, a lawyer for the coalition of religious and conservative groups that backed the measure, said Tam had "next to nothing" to do with the campaign.
Tam testified that he spent a lot of time working on the campaign and communicated with its leaders but modestly added he did not consider himself a major player.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
The recent under reported news of the Duke University associate director of the Center for Health Policy Frank Lombard being exposed as a child rapist who transmitted his molestation live on the Internet goes to show what I’ve said all along: pedophilia is an act not a orientation. In this case Frank Lombard gained access to his victims by adopting them with his gay partner. A gay partner that was not aware of Lombard’s degeneracy. Lombard clearly performed as a gay man well enough to fool his patsy live-in lover, and was apparently able to ingratiate himself into both the gay and academic community well enough to be above suspicion.
Even when he planned on adopting only boys.
more here...
Our laws are written to regulate acts, not orientations.
Frankly no one really knows what an "orientation" is anyway ~ does it swish and sashay or does it have a hairy chest with a gold chain?
A pedophile who engages in sex with members of the same sex is engaging in homosexual behavior. To think otherwise is to challenge the definitions.
Hmmm, AmericanPravda is engaging in their same tactics I see. A more accurate title would say “stands by his accusations of...” rather than “views of...” (which implies an advocacy of).
The sex positive agenda advocates make no bones about their goal of ending ALL moral judgements over ALL sexual pairings nor their vision of everyone being sexually active at every age. They call Christianity sex-negative which means it is decidedly “antiChristian” (which in itself prohibits government advancement of their goals although there are local, state and federal funds that promote it at schools, hospitals, and in government offices).
Has any pro-life lawyer argued that state laws, already on the books, make the argument moot?
If the state (most do) has a law defining inter-generational and 1st-generational marriages as unlawful based on “genetic protections”, that indicates that the state recognizes marriage for the intent of procreation. Marriage must then only be lawful between a man and a woman.
I believe there is good evidence the "stranger molesters," the ones who molest hundreds or thousands of kids over their lives, mostly focus on boys. I'm not sure whether this means they are homosexual or not.
However, I think most child molestation overall takes place in the home by bio-dads, stepfathers or boyfriends, and most of this is of girls.
The question is, is it true or not? Are gays more likely to be pedophiles?
My guess is that nobody has collected that information, because they don’t want to know the answers.
But I don’t think that’s the important issue anyway. The study I WANT to see is this: Are biological parents more likely, or less likely, to molest children than non-biological parents.
It is my opinion that child molestation is much more often done by people other than biological parents, even though biological parents spend much more time with the kids and have much better access to the kids.
It certainly seems clear that a lot more children are sexually molested by non-biological parents, by relatives, by teachers at school, than they are by biological parents.
Since gay marriage forces children to have at least one non-biological parent, that alone could mean a greater risk of molestation.
I would also guess that, at some level, since homosexual sex acts are perceived as being unnatural, that people who are willing to perform those acts would be more likely to also be willing to perform other “unnatural” acts, which would include sex with children.
But it shouldn’t be hard to collect evidence for or against the claim. Just compare the number of same-sex predator cases against the non-same-sex predator cases, and if it’s more than 1/50th of the total, then it seems gays are more likely to be predators. Since gays are about 2% of the population, if more than 2% of the pedophilia cases are same-sex cases, then the guy has a point.
I still don’t know how the constitutionality of a marriage ban can be determined based on the personal beliefs of one guy in California.
I think non-bio-dads are much more likely to molest their daughters than bio-dads. There is definitely something about the biological attachment.
The stats are not hard to find with an internet search.
Homosexuals molest at a far higher RATE than heterosexuals.
* 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7)
* There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is “SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE.” This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States
* Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molester, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molester (19)
* 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9)
* Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: “The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality” (22)
* Because homosexuals can’t reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting “TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT” in their homosexual parades. A group called the “Lesbian Avengers” prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print “WE RECRUIT” on their literature.
(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE
(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275
(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37
(22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992
Good solid info. Not suprising though.
actually, i would have to agree. the studies on pedophilia show the percentage of same-sex attacks (i’ve read 40%) to be radically higher than the percentage of homosexuals in society(about 2-3%).
this being the case, it would mean homosexuals are 15 times more likely to commit acts of pedophilia than heterosexuals.
obviously, this would be counter to the PC belief system.
Quite true. The bio-dad perps, however, are far too many.
The statistics of the Catholic Priest scandal show that gays are FAR more likely to be molestors. The great majority of the victims were little boys and minor youths. Yes, some of the victims were girls, but far fewer, especially considering that homosexuals are far fewer than straights.
And statistics on child molestation generally show the same thing. The proportion of girls to boys molested is lower than the proportion of straight to homosexual men in the population.
This is only ONE reason to be against gay marriage, but it’s certainly a valid one. That Cambridge professor is probably the sort of gay-loving liar that is all too common in academia these days.
The attraction of homosexual men to pubescent and adolescent boys is one of the most comprehensively documented facts of human history. Greece, Rome, China, Japan, etc.
Where this becomes problematic is when the terms “child” or “pedophilia” come into the issue. Pedophilia technically refers to attraction to a pre-pubescent child. While probably more men are attracted to pre-pubescent boys than girls, the difference isn’t huge.
The homosexual groups make a distinction between pedophilia and their attraction to newly pubescent boys. This is scientifically accurate, as this is called ephebophilia.
They point out, accurately, that while the distinction of before and after puberty is a biological one, the “age of consent” laws that lump a fifteen year old in with a two year as “children” are societal constructs and have shifted a great deal over history.
There is no doubt at all that a great many, perhaps most, homosexuals are ephebophiles. Look at the websites that sell books to homosexual men. A huge proportion of the books are on this subject.
While there are a good many het males attracted to pubescent females, the proportion is vastly less, and a whole lot more of them seem to be able to keep it to looking.
A more accurate sentence would say, "was not aware of Lombard's OTHER degeneracy."
Homosexual acts have been understood as degenerate for so long (and indeed register that way on the human conscience, I would argue) that when people commit their lifestyle to performing homosexual acts, it makes it all the more likely they will go further and deeper into degeneracy. Once the line is crossed from normal heterosexual relations into weird sex acts with your own sex....where to draw the line?
The law of diminishing returns is also notable here. As with drug use, what was originally kinky sex doesn't satisfy...so degeneracy grows--to try to satisfy and satiate increasingly numbed and jaded senses.
From an ethical standards point to what exactly is the standard? The same biblical passages that outlawed homosexual acts, also outlawed incest and bestiality. Belittle and throw out those passages as not applying (as all religious homosexual proponents must do) and the gate is wide open for every other kind of degeneracy corrupt imaginations have invented.
And of course there is no serious logical or legal standard to allow homosexual marriage....and NOT allow polygamy or even bestiality.
By biblical standards too, polygamy, while not ideal....is a LOT more ethical, and LESS degenerate, than homosexual practice. Of course it is a legal nightmare...one reason why pagan Rome outlawed it, and Christianity since, along with the biblical negative light on it, has agreed.
Biblical scholars can fairly well prove that homosexual acts are on the same level of degeneracy as incest or worse.
I would add that it exacerbates the problem when homosexual teachers in the public schools have sex with their students, and far more so when adapting parents have sex with their sons.
Also, the Greek “approval” of sex with adolescent boys has been exaggerated. Yes, it was fairly common, but the parents of the boys didn’t like it. As in Muslim society today, the dominant males were not much criticized, but it was thought to be demeaning to the submissive boys.
And in Socrates’ “Symposium,” often taken as a model, Socrates is taking Alcibiades to task for confusing love and admiration for a teacher to desire for sex. One of the other participants speaks admiringly of homosexual lovers, but it’s not clear that Plato or Socrates agree. I think there is some comedy there.
Evidence about Greek attitudes towards homosexuality is complex and often contradictory. It seems to me there was a whole lot of subtext in the documentatin we have and we’re probably missing most of it.
Which isn’t surprising when you realize we’re talking about an extremely diverse society spread across most of the Mediterranean and over a period of 500 years or more.
I do know their attitudes were neither Victorian nor San Franciscan in nature. Liberals in particular have a nasty habit of projecting their own attitudes into the past.
It’s prejudice against bank robbers is the only reason robbing a bank is illegal, too.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.