Posted on 12/07/2009 7:25:33 AM PST by oblomov
Introductory Remarks:
On December 7, 1941, U.S. military installations at Pearl Harbor in Hawaii were attacked by the Imperial Japanese Navy. Could this tragic event that resulted in over 3,000 Americans killed and injured in a single two-hour attack have been averted?
After 16 years of uncovering documents through the Freedom of Information Act, journalist and historian Robert Stinnett charges in his book, Day of Deceit, that U.S. government leaders at the highest level not only knew that a Japanese attack was imminent, but that they had deliberately engaged in policies intended to provoke the attack, in order to draw a reluctant, peace-loving American public into a war in Europe for good or ill. In contrast, historian and author Stephen Budiansky (see his book, Battle of Wits) believes that such charges are entirely unfounded and are based on misinterpretations of the historical record.
It’s been often said that “Truth is the first casualty of war.” Historians and policy experts now know that the official government claims, including those made by U.S. Presidents, that led to the Spanish-American War, World War I, Vietnam War, Gulf War, and other conflicts were deliberate misrepresentations of the facts in order to rally support for wars that the general public would otherwise not support. Was this also the case regarding the tragedy at Pearl Harbor and the U.S. entry into World War II—or are such charges false? We are very pleased to provide a debate between these two distinguished experts.
(Excerpt) Read more at independent.org ...
Willkie died suddenly in October of 1944, well after the primaries and nominations.
“I am only saying that I believe that they knew that it was imminent”
I can believe they knew AN attack was coming, but not THE attack.
We knew from intercepts that the Japanese fleet had sent a force with 4 Carriers to sea, and that it was to be refueled at sea after 8 days.
We watched for that fleet (no satellites then), and it did not come south, toward the Philippines. The only other way it could go was East, and the only target in that direction, that far, was Hawaii.
We also knew that all regular Japanese merchant shipping was ordered to be back in Japanese home waters by Dec. 4.
So that alone would have been enough.
It was the belief then that no airplane could survive the intense, concentrated anti-aircraft from several battleships (hence, Battleship Row was considered the best defensive posture against an air attack).
It was also the belief that torpedoes could not be used in an attack from planes in Pearl Harbor, because the harbor was too shallow.
Both beliefs were obviously wrong. (Hopefully we won’t pay that kind of price again for being overconfident and under-estimating our foes...)
as much as I dislike FDr I doubt he let Pearl happen...
and I doubt his staff would have gone along...
and btw....they screwed Kimmel....Nimitz as much admitted it
“for short of hell it does not solve the problems that lead to it.”
It rarely ever does anyway. Perhaps with the atom bomb.
Except for the Tripartite Pact and, IIRC, there was an earlier one too.
This comes up like clockwork a couple of times a year. Almost makes me think there is an Outlook calendar event set somewhere.
“Put me in the believer column until someone offers definitive proof that it was not used as the only way to get the US people “
Don’t think I woulda posted that, no, don’t think I would’ve.
Homer
Hey! I know where I last saw that line! That was in a Sean Penn movie about war! Funny that...
Shades of Albert Pike.
Agreed. Good grief.
FDR goaded the Japanese into it via sanctions. They knew it was coming. After the attack, Hitler thought it wise to declare war against the USA, since he thought that the Japanese would then enter the war against Russia. His big mistake. Had he not done that, we would have sent our resources to the Pacific. The majority of everything went to Europe. The Pacific theater was a side show, but it worked out by getting us involved in Europe, which wasn’t really a neutral stand by us up to that point. We had to save England from being invaded and stop Germany’s influence around the world. There is a lot more than meets the eye when it comes to WW II. You would think we learned from it, not.
“”This comes up like clockwork a couple of times a year. Almost makes me think there is an Outlook calendar event set somewhere.”
As does Hiroshima and Nagasaki, “the Japanese war effort was collapsing and the bombings were completely unnecessary.”
People can peer back through the blur of time and, with perfect clarity, see EXACTLY what the want to see.
Wilson promised we'd stay out of WWI. While Pearl Harbor was the official beginning of hostilities that involved the US, FDR had been supplying the Allies through lend-lease, so the US was hardly neutral.
There's debate on whether FDR knew about Pearl, but there's no debate about whether or not he wanted to be in the war, and which side he wanted to be on. Remember, there was quite a bit of debate about whether to support the Germans or the English. Joseph Kennedy and Charles Lindbergh both supported the Germans until hostilities actually began.
The US had also been engaged in low level naval warfare against the Germans in the north Atlantic, as the Germans had been sinking any ships attempting to dock in Britain. Civilian ships were being used to transport war supplies.
I'm not saying the US was wrong, but FDR definitely engaged in activities designed to provoke a military attack from both Germany and Japan.
Thank you.
I see the name-callers have arrived. Those that belch out “Truthers” etc. have obviously not read the book. It is complete with documents proving that FDR knew and enabled the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor on this day.
I am not a ‘truther’ by any stretch of the imagination but I am a realist. The book is on my desk as I type this. If I had time I would type out the entire text and scan the photos for those who can’t afford to buy the book.
However, Mrs. panax has me going through the attic getting Christmas decorations today. Believe me, typing the text would be a much easier task!
Thank God for the FOIA or Stinnett would not have been able to complete his 16 year project.
For those who wish to read the truth, they can purchase a used copy from ABE Book Exchange for a couple of dollars. Then they would have solid ground on which to preach against or in favor of what really happened 58 years ago today.
Again, I thank you.
I posted a clarification of what I meant.
November 25, 1941 Cabinet meeting:
According to Stimson’s testimony: “The President brought up the event that we were likely to be attacked perhaps [as soon as] next Monday, for the Japanese are notorious for making an attack without warning. In spite of the risk involved, however, in letting the Japanese fire the first shot, we realized that in order to have the full support of the American people, it was desirable to make sure that the Japanese be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in anyone’s mind as to who were the aggressors.”
Naturally much of the information needed to make an evaluation of what transpired is not available to the public. However, there is much out there that could be validated by a genuine historian. There apparently is no interest. What was the role of Soviet agent, Harry Dexter White, in the preparation of the ultimatum sent to Japan. Did this ultimatum originate in Moscow?
Agree FDR’s actions were provocative (e.g., Lend Lease, shipping supplies) but what were FDR’s motives for wanting to go to war?
Too bad Taft didn’t get the info. Even in 1940, Willkie was pretty much an FDR shill. He was the John McCain of the 1940s.
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