Posted on 11/21/2009 9:43:50 AM PST by kristinn
C-SPAN 2 is carrying the Senate floor debate live this afternoon.
The Democrats control the floor right now. Earlier, Republican Senators Judd Gregg, Kit Bond, Jeff Sessions and David Vitter gave good speeches and dialogues on the budget-busting effects of ObamaCare.
Maria Cantwell is speaking now. Mary Landrieu is excpected to speak shortly.
The cloture vote is scheduled for 8 p.m. EST tonight.
Call me an optimist but I don’t believe it will ever pass. Some will only vote for it if the public option is included while others will only vote for it if it’s excluded. Ditto with taxpayer funded abortions as well as coverage for illegal immigrants. Huge hurdles and there isn’t enough pork to pay off the remaining 99 Mary Landrieu’s for a full consensus. There may be some reform with GOP acceptance but nowhere near what they’re spoon feeding us today.
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---60 Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Begich (D-AK)
Bennet (D-CO)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burris (D-IL)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaufman (D-DE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kirk (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Specter (D-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
NAYs ---39 Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Kyl (R-AZ)
LeMieux (R-FL)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Snowe (R-ME)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Wicker (R-MS)
Not Voting - 1 Voinovich (R-OH)
I agree, sonic109. As I said on another thread, the vast majority of people (non-FReepers) whom I meet on a daily basis here in the northeast don't give a damn about politics, nor even know what's going on. Heck, most of 'em don't even know who their Congressman is, or even how the US Congress works. These sheeple care more about who wins Dancing with the Stars, Survivor, American Idol and/or The Biggest Loser.
But they managed to come out in droves a year ago to vote in the American Idol celebrity Marxist president, and these "voters" haven't been seen since. And here we are, left with the consequences.
America is SO screwed.
Hope you’re right, FRiend. I’m seeing lots of depressing stuff on FR tonight, and it’s making a lot of sense to me. Tonight was yet another big victory for the ‘RATs. We’ll see what happens next...
Thanks... I’ll check that out.
Yep, they won’t realize it till they see their take-home-pay minus $4500/yr, if they still have a job...
I saw that, too. Who knew? Robert KKK Byrd is still among the living...
See my post #541
Thank you, my friend. I will do just that!
There is more awareness than there was last year. In my personal life, people who were non-political are becoming more focuesd and more conservative, or at least more opposed to what’s happening in DC.
I can’t watch the Dims spin their deceit. I cannot understand WHAT is the real payoff? Are they delirious, or are they setting the stage for a junta led by SEIU thuggery and Black Panther troops? Inquiring minds want to know! /tin foil
&&&&
Yes, they are setting the stage. This bill will destroy the economy; it is BHO’s Reichstag Fire.
And Mr Beckel, YOUR party presides over the KILLING of 3,000 voters every day as prenatal infants are hacked to death by your abortionists. Yours is a tide of the blood of the innocent that one day, either by God's grace or by His vengeance, shall be stopped.
I think all that was LEGALLY possible was done. It was made perfectly clear that the majority of Americans did not want this bill. The next step is to throw the bums out and repeal it. It will be tough, but Prohibition was ultimately repealed.
See ,this is what we need to do .
But we won’t. we need to assign specific targets to groups. Now , take this 2 bit slut from Louisiana. If we could get lets say 4 thousand people in LA , people like us , to take turns harrassing the shit out of her day and night( no violence , nothing illegibly ) . Conservative lawtyers going through every word she ever said , every dollar she ever made. Go through her damn garbage if necessary . Rent a store near her office and hire people to research her entire life. Make sure she see it . Hire people to put up posters on every inch of wall she has to pass every day . And when they are torn down do it again. Have 3ooo people try to cram the hallway going to her office. Do it until we can have her arrested for something she’s done wrong , even if it was 30 years ago . Make her hate even getting up in the morning. Whrite every slanderous article you can . Collect a million dollars to use for a 24 hour a day watch on her. Make her pay and make her pay BIG TIME for stabbing the American public in the back. We need to employ the methods of the far left.
Do this to 10 or 12 politicians and after awhile they won’t be so easily swayed to go against us. Make there be concequences to giving the PEOPLE the finger.
You;ll never reverse a give a way program. Never happened , never will.
Yea , run on the platform that you’re going to take things away from people. Fat chance. We move now or we deserve to be a 3rd world sh*t hole Socialist toilet .
Any nation that wont even fight for it’s ideals and constitution deserves to be slaves to the elite , in this case Obama and his Marxist cronies.
No we didnt do all that is legally possible. The GOP has no balls what so ever. We have so many of the DEMS caught red handed in crimes. We dont think outsode th ebox , we don’t use the tactics the left used so well for so many years. No one with imagination or courage is on our side. Oh , we have GREAT talkers, but none who will put their asses and carrers on the line to stop Communism in America.
I’d love to ask anyone on here to tell me why every Republican senator didn’t get up and walk out and say this is totally unconstitutional and we will have no part of it .
Same reason why no one calls Obama a Marxist right on th efloor of the House. Same reason why no one calls for the arrest of Charlie the snake Reingold. Same reason we let Sandy Burgher steal state secrets ..I could go on all night . Our side has NO balls...We might but those who supposedly represent us sure don’t.
Civil disobedience, to be effective, has to be based on sound moral reasoning. That, and the commitment to disobey bad law, are contained in the Manhattan Declaration, found here:
http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/
This is really a contest between the positivists and the natural law folks. Positivists will tell you the law is binding simply because the legislator wrote it down and passed it. Natural law says a written law must resonate with universal moral truth or it loses its ability to bind the conscience, and is therefore exposed as bad law. And bad law must be disobeyed, although one must be very sure it violates essential moral principles before calling it bad law.
The signatories of the Manhattan Declaration are committed to disobeying bad law, as all reasonable people should be. If enough people make that commitment, it will make the law unenforceable, and that’s the big win for our side.
This already happened with RealID. It was an unfunded federal mandate on the states, just like healthcare would be, but so many states told the fed to pound sand (er, invoked the tenth amendment), the fed just walked away. The states won. This is doable.
As for the playbook of the left, some of it is usable, some is not. There is usually a relationship between tactics and philosophy. Stalin killed millions because his debased philosophy allowed him to do so. That is a technique of the left that I hope will never be in our playbook. In fact, nothing that detracts from the rule of law or diminishes respect for one’s fellow humans should ever be used by conservatives.
A nation-wide strike is interesting. There is a risk that just you and me will participate and no one in DC will notice. So it would have to be threshold contingent, i.e., it doesn’t launch until we get an assured number of participants. It needs a website. And a catchy name. Still got some thinking to do...
I say stopping this health care bill is the last chance.
If this passes ( and it will), move ,,I’m serious. I won’t live in a country of punks , cowards and morons anyway .
You have a f*cking COMMUNIST in the White House folks and your blathering about Sarah in 2012will save us and we’ll vote them out in NOV 2010 .
What a damn joke.
By 2012 you wont have a say in what happens anymore, especially when 20 million of the unwashed masses will be full citizens over night, just in time to re elect any Marxist douche bag giving them free health care and free everything else.
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