Posted on 11/20/2009 6:40:11 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
It has always amazed me how unconcerned evolutionists seem to be about entropy and the problems it poses both for a natural origin of life and for macroevolution. The argument from entropy is one of the most powerful arguments against the spontaneous formation of life from a random association of non-living chemicals...
(Excerpt) Read more at creationresearch.org ...
There is a large sign at the corner of Dale Mabry and Van Dyke that states: God, Guns and Guts made America free. Great tag line.
5.56mm
The system is the whole universe, period (including parts we may not know exist). You don’t have to assume anything about a creator. There is an “everything” system, even if we can’t locate its limits. And the fact that there is order *anywhere* in that system, means that order has to have ceom into being somehow. And the 2nd law doesn’t provide any means for order to come into existence in the first place.
“why didn’t you recognize the incongruity of an infinite and unquantifiable”
Most things are infinite and unquantifiable by man.
I challenge you to go out into your backyard and explain anything you come across in other than a superficial way. Pick anything and try to peel back the onion. My 7 year old grandson will have you stammering before you answer “why” 6 times.
“...there are no known violations of the second law of thermodynamics. Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems ... there is somehow associated with the field of far-from equilibrium phenomena the notion that the second law of thermodynamics fails for such systems. It is important to make sure that this error does not perpetuate itself.” [Dr. John Ross, Harvard scientist (evolutionist), Chemical and Engineering News, vol. 58, July 7, 1980, p. 40]
“How does the sun prevent entropy?”
Ok, I know this is futile, but I love posting to you on occasion.
The sun provides the energy to overcome entropy on the earth. It ultimately provides all the energy for the increasingly complex DNA of increasingly evolved creatures on earth.
It really isn’t that hard a concept. A flashlight with dead batteries has reached some increased level of chemical entropy within the batteries - all available energy is expended. However, if you recharge the batteries, and decrease the local entropy of the batteries, does that mean you are God?
No, it means you can once again see in the dark.
Your question and the proposition that “entropy” calls for “Devolution” from some biblical perfection has nothing to do with actual science.
What do you mean by “admit it?”
The fact that entropy increases in both closed and open systems makes the argument for God stronger, not weaker.
In other words, whether the system is closed or open, it can not generate compex organization by itself or with just an input of energy from an outside source such as the sun.
It requires an outside organizing force such as God.
Thank you for helping to point out the naivete (to be kind) of GGG attempting to resurrect the old Entropy argument against evolution.
(I've got a 7 year old granddaughter exactly like that.)
no, i agree, with God being the creator...im just pointing out that all the goof balls on here who posted where they said the 2nd law didnt apply, are plainly wrong....
god is in control...and they plainly dont like it.
I got it from the exact same phrase (over a decade ago) on a massive red, white and blue beltbuckle with crossed rifles!
As a mechanical engineer with extensive background in thermodynamics, I’ve been through these idiotic arguments before. Entropy is not a limiting condition in open systems with energy sources and heat sinks.
In fact, evolution is pro entropy creation, because the creation of local order comes at the overall enhanced disorder of the rest of the universe.
“no”
Try looking at the BIG picture. I suppose it’s possible that the creator created the universe, and then evolution took over once there was an “open” system - but why would you believe that?
You’re kidding, right?
[It would be correct,however, to say that the 2nd Law does, at least, present tremendous problems for one who is defending the evolutionary position]
No it doesn’t.
This is a contradiction. The term entropy was coined by Rudolf Clausius in the context of thermodynamic theory. The popular conception of entropy as a measure of disorder derives from later work in statistical physics which provides a mechanical model as the ground of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The popular conception is a heuristic interpretation of the operation of this model, and is not logically primary to it.
see post 52.
This applies to an open system if, and only if, the system boundaries are expanded sufficiently to effectively establish a larger "closed" system and if the time interval for the process is is sufficiently increased to normalize the expanded system. However, Entropy does not imply that there can be no brief moments, even in a closed system, in which the order may be increased. It only establishes that the level of organization will trend toward some minimum value over time. The few billions of years life has been on earth, in the context of the infinite life of the universe, can manifest one of those brief moments. Do the math.
I think I can prove the earth is not a closed system.
Can you prove the universe is?? doubt it.
Bingo, we have a winner!
I didn’t say anything about strict adherence to genesis. Either you misposted to me, can’t read or both.
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