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The More They Know Darwin, The Less They Want Darwin-Only Indoctrination
Evolution News & Views ^
| October 27, 2009
| Anika Smith
Posted on 10/28/2009 7:34:50 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
The More They Know Darwin, The Less They Want Darwin-Only Indoctrination
According to an international poll released by the British Council, the majority of Americans 60% support teaching alternatives to evolution in the science classroom. The percentage is the same for Britons, despite the fact that both countries have been inundated with pro-Darwin media coverage in this super-mega Darwin Year.
Of course, the British media reporting this are chagrined. Britain is the birthplace of Charles Darwin and his theory of evolution, and the official-sounding British Council, the UK group behind the Darwin Now campaign that commissioned the Ipsos MORI poll, have spent precious resources educating the world about Darwin. Now some believe the poll shows that efforts by Darwinist organizations aren't working.
Head of the British Councils Darwin Now program Fern Elsdon-Baker said, Overall these results may reflect the need for a more sophisticated approach to teaching and communicating how science works as a process.
While Darwins apologists might try to explain the poll numbers as an example of ignorance influencing peoples beliefs, the numbers themselves suggest a different picture.
Across the board, most respondents from the ten countries polled thought that other perspectives on the origins of species such as intelligent design and creationism should be taught in science class*. When the poll is weighted to include only those respondents who have heard of Charles Darwin and know something about his theory of evolution, the percentage supporting alternate theories increases, from 60% to 66% in Britain and 60% to 64% in the U.S.
The correlation appears again when we consider which countries have more knowledge of Darwins theory. The highest numbers of those in support of alternative theories in the classroom correspond to the highest numbers of those familiar with Charles Darwin 60% in Britain, 65% in Mexico, 61% in China, 66% in Russia, and 60% in the U.S. It appears that the more people know about Darwins theory, the more they want to see alternatives in science class.
The basic truth is that most people want evolution to have to compete for its place of dominance in their schools. Interestingly, the U.S. was the only nation with significant knowledge of Darwin where respondents chose the option theories about the origins of species and development of life on earth should not be taught in science lessons at all. 14% chose that, compared with 3% in Britain.
*This takes both those who select "other perspectives" only and those who select "other perspectives" together with "evolutionary theories." It should be noted that Discovery Institute opposes efforts to mandate teaching alternative theories in the science classroom we'd rather have the whole picture of evolution, the scientific arguments both for and against the theory, presented instead.
TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Russia; US: Washington; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; belongsinreligion; catholic; china; christian; creation; creationuts; darwiniacs; darwinism; divideandconquerfr; doesntbelonginnews; education; educationyahright; evangelical; evolution; evoreligionexposed; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; judaism; mexico; moralabsolutes; nonintelligentdesign; notasciencetopic; propellerbeanie; protestant; russia; science; socialism; spammer; templeofdarwin; templeofnutters; ussherites; yecspam
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To: christianhomeschoolmommaof3; Ira_Louvin
"Why do you get to make assertion that we have to prove wrong but when we make assertions we have to prove them right." Ira thinks in circles and uses fallacy to justify his beliefs.
In this case, he applies the fallacy of argument from ignorance for his assertions (where you must prove him wrong) and applies the burden of proof fallacy to your assertions (where the standard for acceptance is impossibly high).
"Does anyone else see a problem with this?"
Just keep pointing it out whenever he gives you the chance.
161
posted on
10/29/2009 12:37:12 PM PDT
by
GourmetDan
(Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
To: metmom
Not everyone takes biology
People are still very ignorant concerning things outside their tiny little lives....ignorant enough to be a useless cohort for a poll on “evolution” or even “science”
SOMEhow, my public school did and still does a good job at educating kids.....yet some kids are still stupid/ignorant.
162
posted on
10/29/2009 12:38:38 PM PDT
by
ElectricStrawberry
(Didja know that Man walked with vegetarian T. rex within the last 4,351 years?)
To: Rafterman
Yes, please keep going and read the link I posted to you earlier. Please provide some empirical scientific evidence that refutes anything Dr. Walt Brown said in part I of his online book.
To: GourmetDan
164
posted on
10/29/2009 12:40:24 PM PDT
by
Ira_Louvin
(Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
To: Ira_Louvin
I think that is a personal attack on creationists. I provided you with two link to published scientific studies done by EVOLUTIONISTS that supported my assertions. You however said they were opinion. LOL!
165
posted on
10/29/2009 12:44:39 PM PDT
by
christianhomeschoolmommaof3
(Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
To: GodGunsGuts
When the poll is weighted to include only those respondents who have heard of Charles Darwin and know something about his theory of evolution, the percentage supporting alternate theories increases, from 60% to 66% in Britain and 60% to 64% in the U.S.News flash: People with an education past the 4th grade have stronger opinions of educational policy. Film at 11.
To: metmom
Then it's kind of a massive fail on the part of the evos despite their monopoly on the public indoctrination centers which pass for schools these days.Liberals on Free Republic are always in lockstep with, or making excuses for the liberals who run the Big Government Public School system of indoctrination.
Only the willfully ignorant would fail to see the destruction intentionally inflicted on America by the education monopoly of the left wing Big Government Public Schools who indoctrinate other people's children away from any connection to American cultural, legal and moral history.
The Big Government Public School System is the biggest of the radical's tools of left wing indoctrination and it is still applauded by the closet-liberals on Free Republic.
167
posted on
10/29/2009 12:49:45 PM PDT
by
Old Landmarks
(No fear of man, none!)
To: christianhomeschoolmommaof3
the term species is a man made term. It is just used to classify. Wolves, dogs and foxes are all different species of dogs. Just because a scientist LABELED them as different species, that doesnt make them different animals. So speciation HAS occurred. What they need to prove evolution is something like genusiation (made up term). IOW, they need an example of an animal jumping its genus not its species. In fact they claim that animals have even jumped their class.
Two things: evolution does not claim that animals "jump" their genera or classes. No single animal went from being a lizard to a dog. More to the point (because I don't think you really believe single animals made a jump like that), there was no dog to jump to until there were dogs. I know that sounds circular, but that simple idea is a stumbling block for a lot of anti-evolutionists. They seem to think that there was this "dog" slot out there waiting to be filled when the lizards got around to it. It's like expecting a leaf on one branch of a tree to jump to a new twig. Nothing has to "jump" for a new twig to grow new leaves.
Also, you say species is just a man-made category, but then you start talking about "kinds" of animals. This again seems to me a failure of imagination on the part of anti-evolutionists--I'm not sure someone who didn't grow up "knowing" that chihuahuas, mastiffs, and tanukis were all dogs would immediately realize they were the same kind of animal. Are sharks and carp the same kind of animal? Are ostriches and hummingbirds the same kind? How do you decide?
And what I've asked often, and never gotten an answer to: how much would an existing kind of animal have to change before you acknowledged it was a new kind? (Bearing in mind that it's not going to turn into something that already exists, as I said before.) How much would a zebra have to change before you said it wasn't a zebra, or even a horse, any more?
To: count-your-change
Darth Vader: The Emperor is not pleased with your apparent lack of progress.
Scared poopless underling: We shall double our efforts.
169
posted on
10/29/2009 1:03:47 PM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: Ira_Louvin
As predicted, Ira responds with more fallacious assertion.
This time, the bare assertion fallacy.
170
posted on
10/29/2009 1:05:50 PM PDT
by
GourmetDan
(Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
To: ElectricStrawberry
Not everyone takes biology In every high school I know of it's required. Where are there schools where it's not?
SOMEhow, my public school did and still does a good job at educating kids.....yet some kids are still stupid/ignorant.
Yeah. Everybody's school is an exception.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, I'd be rich.
171
posted on
10/29/2009 1:07:51 PM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: Old Landmarks
And evos wonder why they are labeled liberal.
How totally clueless they are.
172
posted on
10/29/2009 1:09:18 PM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
You missed the point entirely. The point was that speciation doesn’t prove evolution. Evolution claims that a reptile eventually changed into a mammal. That is a change(in case the word jump is bothering you) from it’s Taxonomy class.
When you see a zebra that has changed indistinguishably from horse kind you let me know. Science isn’t about what ifs.
173
posted on
10/29/2009 1:11:59 PM PDT
by
christianhomeschoolmommaof3
(Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical; christianhomeschoolmommaof3; allmendream; GodGunsGuts; Fichori; ...
I know that sounds circular, but that simple idea is a stumbling block for a lot of anti-evolutionists.
That's because that's the only way that anyone can justify the ToE.
They seem to think that there was this "dog" slot out there waiting to be filled when the lizards got around to it.
You need to take that up with your cohort in arms. AMD said that very thing. So which is it? Niche or not?
You know, you evos might get on a little further if you'd get your story straight.
AMD: Monkeys fill an ecological niche, where there is a demand for monkeys, nature has provided a supply. The demand for monkeys up in the trees did not go away just because some monkeys came down from the trees and started living on the ground.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2371980/posts?page=49#49
174
posted on
10/29/2009 1:17:54 PM PDT
by
metmom
(Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
“Are ostriches and hummingbirds the same kind?”
Aves (birds) are an Order. Ostriches and hummingbirds are from the same order, they aren’t from the same genus. IMO, a kind would be somewhere around the classification of genus. Mammals are an Order as well but you aren’t comparing a bear to a cow.
“I’m not sure someone who didn’t grow up “knowing” that chihuahuas, mastiffs, and tanukis were all dogs would immediately realize they were the same kind of animal.”
I think they would, if not immediately, they would on more careful observation (not scientific) be able to tell that.
175
posted on
10/29/2009 1:21:54 PM PDT
by
christianhomeschoolmommaof3
(Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
To: metmom
And do you suppose that the niche for monkeys up in trees would disappear if some monkeys left the trees?
This was in answer to the asinine Creationist question, repeatedly asked by the ignorant not in actual search of an answer.. “If humans descended from monkeys why are there still monkeys.”
Why wouldn't there be?
176
posted on
10/29/2009 1:24:45 PM PDT
by
allmendream
(Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
To: christianhomeschoolmommaof3
You missed the point entirely. The point was that speciation doesnt prove evolution. Evolution claims that a reptile eventually changed into a mammal. That is a change(in case the word jump is bothering you) from its Taxonomy class. No, I didn't miss the point. I know the existence of different species does not, by itself, "prove" evolution. It's the phenomenon that the theory is trying to explain. "Speciation," or the formation of new species--which we have seen, like it or not--is evidence supporting evolution, but it isn't proof either.
On the other hand, you did entirely miss my point. "A" reptile did not change into "a" mammal. (Maybe you do think evolution proceeds by single-animal jumps like that after all--maybe I gave you too much credit.) My point is that new twigs kept sprouting from the reptile branch, and eventually one of them was robust and different enough to deserve its own name. But nothing "changed" or "jumped" from one branch to another--nothing left the old branch and moved to the new.
When you see a zebra that has changed indistinguishably from horse kind you let me know. Science isnt about what ifs.
And I expect that when I do, you'll just say "it's still a zebra." That's why I'm asking you how much it would have to change to not be the horse kind any more. "Kind" strikes me as a pretty useless term for scientific analysis if you can't define it in the abstract.
To: metmom
You need to take that up with your cohort in arms. AMD said that very thing. So which is it? Niche or not? I'm not surprised you're not getting the idea here. The fact that there's an ecological niche for tree-dwelling mammals, which monkeys fill quite nicely, doesn't mean it had to be monkeys that filled it. For example, raccoons are not native to Japan, but they do have a tree-climbing dog that is active at night (the tanuki I mentioned above). Or think about your job: you're filling it, so they're not looking to hire someone new, and there's no reason you should lose it. But it didn't have to be you they hired in the first place.
To: christianhomeschoolmommaof3
Aves (birds) are an Order. Ostriches and hummingbirds are from the same order, they arent from the same genus. IMO, a kind would be somewhere around the classification of genus. Mammals are an Order as well but you arent comparing a bear to a cow. This exemplifies my point. You can't say what a "kind" is except by classifying a bunch of existing animals together (exactly what you were complaining about with "species," seems to me). You already know dogs go together, so you're happy to say they're the same kind. But that's useless as a tool for analysis.
I also think it's kind of funny that you're objecting to scientists' use of the concept of species but then answer my question with reference to orders and genera. Your idea of "kind" seems to be "I'll know it when I see it."
To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
Sorry I should have just answered you point for point.
You said “Also, you say species is just a man-made category, but then you start talking about “kinds” of animals.”
Taxonomy is a useful tool. I never meant that it was JUST man made. When we hear the word species, we think of a TOTALLY different animal. However that is not true. Species is just another type of the same animal. Take the taxonomy of a dog/wolf. You don’t get down to a different name until you reach species. Take a Bear/Dog you don’t get to a different name until you reach family. So I would consider “kinds” somewhere around the family/genus area. IOW, species is a sub category of the animal canidae. It is not an altogether different animal. To get a different animal you have to travel BACK up the Taxonomy chart not down.
Classification Chart for example:
Animal Bear House Cat Dog Wolf
Kingdom Animalia Animalia Animalia Animalia
Phylum Chordata Chordata Chordata Chordata
Class Mammalia Mammalia Mammalia Mammalia
Order Carnivora Carnivora Carnivora Carnivora
Family Ursidae Felidae Canidae Canidae
Genus Ursus Felis Canis Canis
Species-Ursusarctos Feliscatus Canisfamiliaris Canislupus
Kingdom- Animalia - all animals includes human (wrongly IMO)
Phylum- Chordata - vertebrates (for simplicity)
Class- Mammalia - all vertebrates that have live birth/nurse
Order- Carnivora- all mammals that eat meat
Family-Canidae- wolf/dog/fox like mammals
Genus- Canis- wolf/dog like mammals (this is where foxes seperates)
Species- Canis familiaris- dogs
“This again seems to me a failure of imagination on the part of anti-evolutionists—I’m not sure someone who didn’t grow up “knowing” that chihuahuas, mastiffs, and tanukis were all dogs would immediately realize they were the same kind of animal.”
My children were introduced to a dog when they were babies usually my in laws dog first (large). After that, every dog they saw was doggie or puppy. I didn’t have to tell them that they were all dogs. They knew they fit in the same category. Just like they learned blue and then they could tell me that sky blue and baby blue and indigo were all blue.
180
posted on
10/29/2009 2:03:52 PM PDT
by
christianhomeschoolmommaof3
(Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
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