'We're pinned down:' 4 U.S. Marines die in Afghan ambush

McClatchy ^ | 9-8-09 | Jonathan S. Landay

[tcrlaf]

GANJGAL, Afghanistan — We walked into a trap, a killing zone of relentless gunfire and rocket barrages from Afghan insurgents hidden in the mountainsides and in a fortress-like village where women and children were replenishing their ammunition.

"We will do to you what we did to the Russians," the insurgent's leader boasted over the radio, referring to the failure of Soviet troops to capture Ganjgal during the 1979-89 Soviet occupation.

Dashing from boulder to boulder, diving into trenches and ducking behind stone walls as the insurgents maneuvered to outflank us, we waited more than an hour for U.S. helicopters to arrive, despite earlier assurances that air cover would be five minutes away.

U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.

[Travis McGee]

"Dashing from boulder to boulder, diving into trenches and ducking behind stone walls as the insurgents maneuvered to outflank us, we waited more than an hour for U.S. helicopters to arrive, despite earlier assurances that air cover would be five minutes away. U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.

Doncha just love restrictive ROE? Dejavu, "how to lose a war."

[Joe 6-pack]

"The key problem to this line of thinking, besides our sad excuse for a POTUS, is the smarter-than-thou mass media who will NEVER, EVER allow the US military to execute a strategy like that."

Which is why I concluded...

"...if we're not willing to commit the manpower, resources, political will and national courage to do that, we need to pack it up and bring it home."

[Hulka]

There is an effort underway to field such an aircraft (OA-X), if not the OV-10 itself.

[thescourged1]

The Afghans should thank their lucky stars I'M not running the show. I would introduce those 7th century barbarians to a few other 7th century barbarians that were indiscriminate killers too: Plague, Typhus, and Cholera. My first choice would be smallpox, but that removes plausible deniability.

And oh yes.....Operation Ranch Hand II, for the poppy fields.

[envisio]

“”””Did you notice last night all the alphabet channels discussing the elections, whether they were properly conducted or not?””””””

Oh, you talking about the racist charges for anyone who votes other that 0? You talking about ACORN? You talking about BlackPanthers threatening white people at the polls? No, I missed that nonstop coverage.

[Froufrou]

rotflmao. If only ‘twernt so...

[matginzac]

Damn right!!!!!!!!!!!!! These a**hole “leaders” are keeping their butts safe while having no problem doing this to the troopers. I know VERY WELL how these guys get their stars and it isn’t pretty - all candy a**es. Note how many end up working for sh*t head lib administrations after serving...Crowe, Jones, Maccafrey (sp), Blair, etc....may they rot in hell!!!!! (Good for you for the post...go for it, pal.)

[RGSpincich]

Obama grasping defeat from the jaws of victory. Ought to be a big hit at the Security Council.

[Sarajevo]

But next time, we should follow the Clinton doctrine, and do it from 10,000 feet.

Clinton was and always will be a pu$$y. There's nothing like being down in the dirt.

[Sequoyah101]

This makes me more ill than I am already over this mess which is just one of many.

Worse than Vietnam now. Time to get out and suffer the consequences since this is not winnable now with engagement terms dictated.

Our troops can win if they are unleashed but this is a rock fight. Well aware of the terrorist implications but Afganastan is not worth fighting for now.

[LuvFreeRepublic]

Thanks for the links penelopesire. I have done some emailing and have posted the article on Facebook (America, Sarah and my page). After I post the article on the Air Force, Marine, Navy FB page, I will make phone calls.

Has anyone sent this out in mass to the media???

[Hulka]

Actually, in Gulf War I there were BVR ROE that was in place and they could shoot BVR as long as certain electronic means were satisfied. And they did.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:DGRSGBEevVcJ:www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/watts.html+%22Gulf+War+Air+Power+Survey%22+%26+BVR&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

"83. During the Gulf War 41 air-to-air victories were officially credited to Coalition fighters. . . In 15 of these 24 AIM-7M kills, the engagements opened with BVR shots (Barry D. Watts and Thomas A. Keaney, Part II: Effects and Effectiveness in Gulf War Air Power Survey, Vol. II, Operations and Effects and Effectiveness (Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1993), p. 113). Ten of these BVR engagements occurred during daylight and five at night. Also, there were some occasions on which the initial BVR shot missed and the kill was achieved by a subsequent missile fired after the pilot visually acquired the bogey."

ROE is supposed to remain classified to avoid situations like in this article. You can bet the bad guy's knew the ROE and exploited it.

[Squantos]

Taliban is using the somali foxhole concepts well. Enemy with guns are fighters. Those near the enemy are ammo bearers.

Easier to get forgiveness than permission ............do em.

If Obama won’t let em kick some then let em come home and get some.

[mbynack]

I “disremembered”. I think I was remembering the ROE during the period that the Eagle driver shot down the Blackhawk. I know that the ROE changed frequently.

[Hulka]

Roger that. . .no worries.

[Alberta's Child]

This is why the most effective fighting forces in U.S. history were those that had a serious distrust -- and in some cases complete disdain -- for the notion of a Federal military command structure.

The Green Mountain Boys, Daniel Morgan's Virginia Riflemen, and the Texas Rangers were all perfect cases in point.

[penelopesire]

“Has anyone sent this out in mass to the media???”

Not sure. There was a report on the other thread last night that the AP had picked up the report, but guess which part they left out?

Yep..you guessed it..the part about the US commanders not sending in air support because of Obama’s new ‘rules of engagement’!

I have been giving every senator I call this morning the links to the McClathcy report. It just occured to me that we might want to call Oliver North’s show. ??

mailto:warstories@foxnews.com

This is unacceptable and we have to stand up for our soldiers! If Obama is not going to allow them to shoot back..then we need to get the hell out!

[Paratrooper]

The Afghan Civilians know the Rules of engagement, if they could be killed they would quickly leave the battle area. But our ROE is screwed up...If Afghan civilian’s stay and help support the enemy then they are the enemy and should be targeted.

[LuvFreeRepublic]

I know there are FReepers that know how to send this out in mass to the media. I hope they do it. I'll keep sending it out little by little. We cannot let Vietnam happen again. They say they need more troops, but BO doesn't want to send them out of fear that he will lose the left. I agree that if they are not allowed to fight, GET THEM OUT.

[GourmetDan]

Commanders putting their careers ahead of the lives of their troops.