Posted on 08/16/2009 7:57:54 PM PDT by TomTGradeczek
A Comment about Gays in the US Military and Don't Ask, Don't Tell
I had a few communications with Gen'l P. Pace (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time) and received a very nice response (I believe hand signed) mentioning the input I gave him about the topic of Gays in the Military. Someday I will have that letter framed as memorabilia.
Let me begin by saying that as one of the most disciplined, soldier's soldier, there ever was, Gen'l Pace has officially never mentioned his actual opinion about homosexuality, in a way suggesting that any policy he has ever suggested, was influenced by his personal opinions. Any of us may think, I repeat, ... Think, we know exactly what is in Gen'l Pace's mind, but I am not a mind reader, and won't pretend to be.
Clearly the issue of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was very troubling to Gen'l Pace when he was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. It wasted allot of his time. A few things I do know;
Gen'l Pace believe it was the duty of EVERY American (Gay or not) to join the military, fight, and perhaps die, protecting the country, the freedoms and the structure of America. He also believed that he was the director and protector of every person in uniform. Finally, he was stuck with a policy (Don't Ask, Don't Tell) when he took his office, and in the face of gay advocates in the military asking that they bve allowed to declare their gay status while soldiering, he had a dilemma.
If Gen't Pace Ever Allowed Gays in the Military to declare their Gay Status Openly, That would be the last time that gay persons could ever be in the current US military, and likely the last time ANY Gay person could be in the US military.
Once I explained the logic of this situation to him, he sent a very nice letter to me, thanking me. You would think that the Joint Chief of Staff would have a political logician on staff, but I don't think so.
The question is, if it were legal for gays in the military to declare their gay status, why would that eliminate all gays from the US military? The answer is simple, and logical. Right now, in order to preserve the dignity of military service people, and protect their self-respect, men and women are not mixed in the military. Although certain exhibitionist women or men might enjoy parading around naked in open barracks, or in communal showers, in front of members of the opposite sex (OR THE OPPOSITE SEXUALITY), it is military policy that women cannot be forced to undress and be naked in front of men in open tents, barracks and in communal showers (which means with naked men).
The reason why women are not forced to be naked changing clothes in open, group tents, barracks, or communal showers is to preserve the privateness of women who AS Women, would be viewed by some men as the objects of their sexual desires and interests. No matter how gentlemanly, or disciplined the men in the barracks, tents or communal showers would be, in the presence of naked women, it is considered a strike against the dignity of women to force them to expose their naked bodies to the view of heterosexual men in open, group barracks, or communal showers.
Why this impacts gays in the military, and why attempts by gay military personnel to be allowed to proclaim openly that they are gay, IS SO MISGUIDED, is because the first time gay men are allowed to openly proclaim they are gay, then a gigantic group of heterosexual male, military personnel, would be able to successfully sue to be separated from any gay male, who by the declaration of their gayness, would also be declaring that they find male bodies the object of their sexual desires.
So imagine this; Gays win the right to proclaim their gay status in the military, the next day heterosexual men (the majority in the military) sue to be separated from any gay male who would view a heterosexual male in a sexual way, and then we have 4 groups in the military, all separated; gay females, and heterosexual females, gay males and heterosexual males. The cost of supporting completely separate platoons in open tent and barrack conditions, completely separate showers, etc. would mean we would basically have a gay and heterosexual military at that point, AND THAT Would be the end of ANY gay military personnel who came out and declared their gay status (although gays might be allowed to stay stateside doing support functions). The costs involved would be deemed so high, gays would be forced out of any front line participation (although their might be a token Coast Guard cutter or two fully manned by gays, (joke)).
Clearly heterosexual males in the military have rights equal to females in the military. This is an issue of basic rights to protect one's dignity and self respect. I guess if all women in the military were forced into mixed units requiring them to be naked in open tents and barracks, and communal showers, then it would be hard for heterosexual men to argue they don't want to have their bodies viewed by gay men as possible objects of sexual interest. But That's Never Going To Happen (except maybe in Israel).
So this was a conflict for Gen'l Pace. He felt it was a duty of ALL Americans to serve in the US military in times of need, possibly fight, and possibly even die, protecting our freedoms and culture. But if gays were allowed to declare their gayness openly, that would effectively eliminate gays from the military in short order. Gen'l Pace tip-toed around this issue, although it plagued him during his tenure as Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff. But you'd think NPR and others who did stories promoting gay openness in the military, would have understood they would be eliminating gays in the military if this openness ever happened.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell has never been openly explained to the American public. I'm surprised this kind of logic isn't being used when there are news stories about this issue. Extreme conservatism about gays and the US military might be better served by explanations at times, instead of simply screaming about how gayness is against some pundit's personal feelings or religious beliefs. It might better serve America, to make a case that is logical and bullet-proof.
Thank you
TomTGradeczek, author of Waiting For John Doe (Number Two), (how a former Hitler Youth successfully arranged mass murder through a terrorist attack on Oklahoma and America)
tomtgradeczek@lycos.com
Interesting. Welcome to FR and thanks for your post.
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Perverts pervert everything, It’s what they are and what they do.
Nice tagline! :0)
;-)
Thank you for the post and Welcome to FR.
There are a large number of active, former and retired military who are members here. This has been an occasional topic of comment.
having served then there is no way I would ever want this, nor do any of my military friends
has this admin actually done anything or said anything which most Americans want?
everything it seems is a slap in the face to this country.
greetings
Why, why, why has everyone caved in to this Orwellian doublethink of referring to sodomites as “gay?” Even here, where people really ought to know better.
Ping
I was in the Army, when don’t ask, don’t tell went into effect. Nobody liked it, including myself. However, it has worked well.
The Messiah will be under a lot of pressure to undo it, in the next few months. I can’t imagine the chaos.
The examples given are valid. At West Point, all but one of the barracks had large communal showers. Many times in the field, we would be herded through a shower facility like cattle.
At the national training center, there were communal showers, and no dividers between the toilets. I really wouldn’t want to soap up in front of Corporal Cupcake or Major Hard-on.
LOL. Religions do just fine corrupting themselves.
In My experience, when someone wants to change a name of something, its due to shame.
Shame leads to lying.
Lying leads to fear.
Fear leads to panic.
Panic leads to aggressiveness.
Aggressiveness leads to attacking everything.
Help them out. Call them by their rightful name so the shame hits them square between the eyes.
God gave us shame. He gave us righteous rage as well.
These are both useful tools at times. Problem with folks wanting to change the word to describe their sin is that they want to ignore or even “trick” God.
God will not be ignored, nor will he be mocked. He cant be tricked.
God loves the sin and hates the sinner.
Sodomy is no better or worse than greed, lust or violence.
Its all sin.
They just dont want to admit it and being PC about it aint helping them.
Because there will be a time when they will be too far gone and their hearts will be too hardened against God to come to him.
That will be a sad day for them indeed.
LOL!
Amen to that.
What one needs to remember is that religions are full of people.
People have mouths.
Things progress badly from there.
Luckily- If you are really christian, its not religion. Its relationship with Christ.
Even then, we run into trouble now and again ( because we still have mouths)
;0-)
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