Only they won't be afforded eight years. Thanks to the grand lady of Alaska, who will win over a decided majority of Americans and defeat the effete, Marxist-phile in 2012.
of Jefferson & Reagan
Posted on 08/13/2009 3:02:29 PM PDT by Rebelbase
HIGH POINT -- Residents of a local public housing facility recently had to cease holding religious services there after officials told them the activities ran afoul of federal regulations.
Worship services by residents of Elm Towers were in violation of U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development rules, which forbid "inherently religious activities" for organizations that receive HUD funds, according to the High Point Housing Authority.
Elm Towers residents had been gathering for years on Sunday mornings and sometimes Wednesday evenings for Christian worship services led by a local minister in a common room on the first floor of the high-rise apartment building on S. Elm Street, according to tenants.
The housing authority learned of the services after other Elm Towers residents complained last month. The agency then put a stop to the services.
"To me, it's stepping on our constitutional rights. You're supposed to be able to worship like you want," said Howard Embler, an Elm Towers resident who sometimes attended the services. "We've got a lot of elderly people here who can't get out on their own to church."
HUD subsidizes the apartments, which are primarily for senior citizens, and forbids religious activities in places like the common area and lobbies of the facility but not inside residents' apartments, according to the housing authority. Officials explained to residents why they took the action they did and gave them copies of the regulations.
"We're not telling residents they cannot have religious activities in their homes, but they cannot hold things in common areas. We understand they would like to do this, but we have to go by regulations," said Rachael Matthews, a spokeswoman for the authority. "We're not saying churches can't come and pick them up and take them to worship or religious services. We don't want to restrict them."
Embler, a three-year Elm Towers resident, said its was his understanding the services had been held for many years prior to his arrival. Residents said the attendance varied, from a handful of participants to larger gatherings.
"We just want to be sure, as in all cases, that we're following HUD regulations to ensure that we do not lose the subsidy for the residents' apartments," said Matthews. "That's of utmost importance."
They do, but they don’t, since it’s Obama.
Well, no, actually, unless you’re “Organizing for America.” That type of free speech is allowed.
‘and just who is complaining?’...maybe the gangstas hate being awakened by their neighbor’s hymns after a long night on the corner.
What exactly is the “common area” to be used for if not something like this?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The problem being that if the Federal Government is providing (i.e., supporting from federal revenues) facilities for religious purposes, it necessarily implies endorsement of some religions (those that sign up first to use a limited facility, for example) to the exclusion of others (those that sign up last or have too few members to warrant use of the facility.) It's a game the founders clearly wanted government not to play - (which is why it is the first clause of the first amendment) and if you read the Supreme Court decisions at al, you'll realize that a violation of the Establishment Clause is the one are in which a taxpayer has general standing to challenge an act of the government (based on status as a taxpayer alone).
The article said — Worship services by residents of Elm Towers were in violation of U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development rules, which forbid “inherently religious activities” for organizations that receive HUD funds, according to the High Point Housing Authority.
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Having helped some people at the Tulsa Housing Authority buildings (operates under HUD), I see that they have organized religious services, attended by the residents there. It appears to go on every week, and in fact, it appears to be several different groups every week.
If this is a HUD requirement, as is indicated by the article, then why is it going on at Tulsa Housing Authority buildings?
Of course, Tulsa *is* the “Buckle of the Bible Belt” too... so maybe that makes a difference. :-)
Exactly, the building is not organizing the services, the residents are. As long as the building doesn’t discriminate, they should be able to hold the services.
Of course, we should not have this problem. The only “government housing” should be prisons and military barracks.
You said — The United States is not a Wiccan nation. It’s a Christian nation.
—
Ummm..., it doesn’t appear to be a Christian nation to me, but rather — a nation in which a certain number of Christians live... (which isn’t the same thing).
As a “nation” — it appears to me, that the USA is under the judgment of God (of which the election of Obama is one result...). The USA is far, far from being a Christian nation...
From another post...
—
Okay, as a “general theme” here, to my answers, and before I get into my answers, I will say that the general them is that — the USA is under the judgment of God, right now, and it remains to be seen what the response of the USA will be to that judgment of God.
It’s either going to be repentance or a further hardening of the hearts of the people of this country, “as a nation”.
That judgment of God upon the USA stems from some very specific and overt actions of the country, over decades, along with the “general” action of the abandonment of God in this nation.
Those specific actions that God is judging are — the actions of the US in forcing the dividing of the land of Israel, the killing of 50 million kids over several decades, and the promoting of homosexuality and homosexual marriage in this country.
And, an *obvious result* of that judgment of God, is the sending, by God, President Obama, to be President over this land, in order to carry out God’s judgments upon this land. In other words, the people have voted to get the “best government that they deserve” and God has determined that the best deserved for this people of this land — is President Obama. Obama is the judgment of God over the USA.
And remember, one does not *thwart* the judgment of God; that can never happen. So if someone thinks that they will get rid of Obama by trying to thwart His judgment and get rid of the President He put into place, they are sadly mistaken.
There’s only *one proven way* to “thwart” the judgment of God, and that is by the repentance of the nation (and “as a nation”).
At this point, I’ll bring up another post I have done on this issue..., and the following is from another such post...
—
Now, God is a forgiving God, though, and if we *do listen* to an example of a previous President, this nation *may* find some grace from our Creator God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
BUT, without the requisite repentance, don’t expect the grace of God upon this nation (although as individuals, we do live in God’s grace on our personal lives, in accepting the salvation offered by Him, through faith in Jesus, the Messiah of Israel...)
To see *how far the U.S. has fallen* — from God and His righeousness..., just look at what Abraham Lincoln wrote...
The following is a “national repentence” thread.
Abraham Lincoln’s Word to the United States Today
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2232720/posts
[ —This is Lincoln’s original proclamation, with only *four words* changed in *one phrase* (only)... The rest is the exact same proclamation, except for the dates adjusted, and that’s all (and the note at the very bottom of the proclamation, the very last line...) — ]
A Proclamation.
Whereas, the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God, in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for National prayer and humiliation.
And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions, in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon; and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.
And, insomuch as we know that, by His divine law, nations like individuals are subjected to punishments and chastisements in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of economic and national collapse, which now desolates the land, may be but a punishment, inflicted upon us, for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole People? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven. We have been preserved, these many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us!
It behooves us then, to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
Now, therefore, in compliance with the request, and fully concurring in the views of the Senate, I do, by this my proclamation, designate and set apart Thursday, the 30th. day of July, 2009, as a day of national humiliation, fasting and prayer. And I do hereby request all the People to abstain, on that day, from their ordinary secular pursuits, and to unite, at their several places of public worship and their respective homes, in keeping the day holy to the Lord, and devoted to the humble discharge of the religious duties proper to that solemn occasion.
All this being done, in sincerity and truth, let us then rest humbly in the hope authorized by the Divine teachings, that the united cry of the Nation will be heard on high, and answered with blessings, no less than the pardon of our national sins, and the restoration of our now divided and suffering Country, to its former happy condition of unity and peace.
In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
Done at the City of Washington, this 12th day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand and nine, and of the Independence of the United States the two hundred and thirty second.
By the President: Abraham Lincoln
Sent by the Word of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
NOW..., as to whether the U.S. and its people *will do this* — that’s another question. I seriously doubt it — so I think the judgment of God will *stay in place* and the U.S. is going down...
You said — Just wondering what would happen say if it was a mosque service in progress there ....
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Well, if I were there, then I would be in the “complaining group”... LOL...
Just wondering if the housing authority would have banned an Islamic service ...
The Left is back to this again.
The more the government owns of human life and property, the more the Left is ban religious freedom. We’ll be like the Soviet Union in no time with Obama radicals in charge of the nation for eight years.
Hud doesn’t count, it’s in violation of zoning codes, go build a church in a proper zone!
I'm not.
These people need to find a lawyer who will help them go after the people behind these rulings, personally. The bigots who promulgate this crap will keep it up until they are held personally accountable.
The United States is not a Wiccan nation. It’s a Christian nation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The United States is a country where every single person has the right to worship as they see fit. As far as the government is concerned, a person’s religious beliefs are between that person and God. It is none of the governments danged business.
Are you saying we should outlaw Wiccan (or any other religion) because the majority of people in the US are Chrisitans? Are you saying Wiccans (or people of any other religious faith) have fewer rights to practice their religion than Christians.
I am a Christain. Probably more fundamentalist than 90% of Christians in the US, but I believe every single American has the right to worship as they see fit.
This appears to be a clear first amendment violation to me.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
HUD is part of the Federal government and it has enacted an anti-religion rule that prohibits free exercise.
Religion is expected to be in communities. The Federal government cannot encourage low income communities and then deny basic rights.
Thomas More center would probably be interested in this case.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Who (or what) indeed. I think the real Christians of this country know exactly who AND what is behind it. And it's the exact struggle and WAR against mankind/humans that has been described and predicted in the Bible for over 2,000 years.
Witness the events of Biblical prophecy happening and unraveling right before our very eyes. We are blessed to be able to do so.
Yes, prophecy is unraveling right before our eyes!
NO, question about that.
I’m just curious as to who the little losers are that are pushing this. In the U.S. Obama and who is the puppet master is the leading minion for the U.S..
Hell is going to be a very crowded place.
Standing room only?
The common area is the town square for this community. I’ve held many services in such places, and they’re used for any number of community events and used for scheduled events by subgroups. To deny religion when others are permitted is to discriminate on the basis of religion. Again, there’s a prohibition of free exercise and a denial of equal protection and free speech.
Only they won't be afforded eight years. Thanks to the grand lady of Alaska, who will win over a decided majority of Americans and defeat the effete, Marxist-phile in 2012.
Thomas More center would probably be interested in this case.”
Agreed and agreed, Padre! The ACLU might be interested in taking that one on.
Ironically, just today the state civil liberties union filed suit against one of our cities because the city has told a group of Mohammedan refugees they can't have a mosque in an auto repair garage because it violates zoning restrictions. My very quick read tells me they may be right. Predictably several well known and loud mouthed “conservatives”, the sort who lately have been publically professing their loyalty to the Constitution, are shrieking already about the leftists making common cause with the Mohammedans.
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