Pray for an end to abortion and a return to a culture of life in our nation.
Posted on 08/12/2009 3:57:31 PM PDT by wagglebee
SAN JOSE, California, August 12, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A Democratic Congresswoman admitted to her California constituents gathered at a town-hall meeting what the Obama administration has tried desperately to keep quiet: the health care reform bill covers abortions.
"We know that over 90 percent of abortions are purely elective, not medically necessary. Why is this being covered when abortion is not clearly health care," Ignacio Reyes, a local pro-life advocate, asked Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Cali.) at a San Jose town-hall meeting.
As the applause for Reyes subsided, Lofgren, who represents California's 16th Congressional District, responded that the proposed Congressional reforms included "a basic benefit plan developed by health professionals."
"Abortion will be covered as a benefit by one or more of the healthcare plans available to Americans, and I think it should be," said Logren, eliciting jeers and protests from the crowd.
Footage of Logren's town-hall meeting (complete with subtitles) was recorded and posted to the internet by David Schmidt, a young pro-life videographer and founder of the website "Issues and Justice".
Although abortion groups, such as Planned Parenthood Federation of America and NARAL Pro-Choice America, continue to claim the existence of an abortion mandate is a "myth," the Associated Press instead confirmed that H.R. 3200 - the only version accessible to the general public out of five other bills on health-care reform - includes abortion coverage under the Capps Amendment.
The Capps Amendment explicitly mandates that the public health insurance option - which aims to provide for 46 million Americans who now lack coverage - will cover abortions through federal funding not restricted by the Hyde amendment. The Hyde amendment, which must be renewed on an annual basis, only prohibits federal funding going to the Department of Health and Human Services (HSS) from paying for abortion. But as the AP report confirmed, that leaves open other streams of federal funding, which under the health bill (HR 3200) could be used to subsidize abortion.
Although the Capps provision forbids the proposed "Health Benefits Advisory Committee" from mandating abortion-coverage as an essential service in the "Health Insurance Exchange," it does mandate that every U.S. region have at least one abortion-covering private insurance plan. It also mandates one non-abortion-covering private insurance plan for every region.
The amendment goes on to require taxpayer subsidies in the form of "affordability credits" to flow to insurance plans that include abortion, but then demands insurers guarantee the "affordability credits" do not subsidize abortion procedures, as if somehow money loses its fungible nature.
Family Research Council first brought attention to the abortion mandate attached to HR 3200 in a provocative ad in which an elderly man finds out he is denied a surgical procedure, while the government plan covers abortions. (see FRC video)
Read related coverage by LifeSiteNews.com:
Palin Firestorm Brings Fresh Scrutiny to ObamaCare "Death Panels"
Dr. Emanuel, key Obama health care advisor, stated doctors take Hippocratic Oath too seriously
Catholics United, NARAL Blast Family Research Council for Exposing Abortion Mandate in Health Bill
Proposed Health Care Bill is an "Abortion Industry Bailout" Warns Congressman
Now, THIS is what we should campaign on. THIS is something the Left understand. THIS is something they would care about.
Not dubious “death panel” argument that make us look like loons, not abortion itself, they’ll dismiss us as religious bigots, but about the uncontestable (even by so called fact check sites) *fact* that the taxpayers will have to pay for UNNECESSARY SURGERIES, because thats what elective abortions are.
Would Americans be outraged if ObamaCare reimbursed elective breast implant? Would they find weird that they would have to pay for someone’s sex change? Why the hell would they accept to pay for all the office party mistake?
Yes, abortion is the Devil’s handiwork, but guess what? No one cares unless they are really, REALLY religious, and the Left isn’t. If we want even consider our side, we have to start thinking like them, not like moral people. The amoral, egoist plebeian will react better to having to pay for someone else’s mistake than trying to convince them of our moral imperatives.
Those who hold to election understand that each chosen person is rescued irrespective of their lifespan, but it seems that the “free will” issues of Catholicism have a difficulty here. That is, unless they use that parachute, “age of accountability”. Where again is that Scriptural reference?
I am FRiends with a great many Evangelical FReepers and quite a few of them have longstanding issues with Catholic doctrine. However, I have ALWAYS known them to be openly supportive of Catholic efforts in the fight for life.
My sense, and if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it, is that your post is an attempt to engage Catholics in some sort of debate over the unborn and I WILL NOT participate in any such debate. ALL devout Christians are under attack by the left in ways that have not been seen for over sixteen centuries; whatever dogmatic differences we may have, we damn well better recognize those many beliefs we share because we are about to persecuted and very possibly jailed and our enemy really doesn't care if we are Catholic, Baptist, Calvinist, Protestant or anything else.
Pro-Life bump
That’s right. It’s not much different than pagan infant sacrificies of old.
You bet!
I'll stand with anyone who wants to protect life. It is one area where we are united.
FWIW, the abortion issue is as much a result of weak kneed pastors and priests as it is Christians not living for Jesus. By this I mean the lack of church discipline and Christians not holding brothers and sisters accountable. If our clergy promoted discipline and we supported it there would be a lot less of this evil. Instead we talk a good game, but we don't do what needs to be done.
IOW, throw the politicians & judges that support these policies out of the churches.
Thank you for your continuing interest in Catholicism. If you cannot find a more recent thread on salvation of the unbaptised where you could post your question, do see “Limbo” on my profile page.
IOW, throw the politicians & judges that support these policies out of the churches.
I couldn't agree more. My biggest gripe with Catholic bishops is their reluctance to publicly excommunicate pro-abortion Catholic politicians. If they were to excommunicate Sebelius, Pelosi, Biden and others it would be a real wake up call to everyone else.
Catholic excommunication DOES NOT need to be permanent, all that would be necessary is repentance on the part of those who have been excommunicated. I believe that the GREATEST disservice any clergyman can do is to turn a blind eye to the sins of their congregants.
That is the essence of church discipline in any Evangelical church. Once the Christian repents they are welcome. If this path was followed it would become real clear, real quick, that everyone must decide where they want to stand. Our churches might have smaller numbers and less influence over the whole society but there would be no question that their members were bringing light to the world.
I wasn’t aware that being pro-life had to include an agreement to avoid discussions/debates over the surrounding issues. My sense is that you don’t wish to discuss any of these and that is fine. However, nobody is the spokesman for everyone, if I am not mistaken.
Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.
"It is the duty of every patriot to protect his country from its government" - Thomas Paine
So Obama's socialized healthcare is just a sign of things to come. I just hope that more and more people find out about Obama's plan for America sooner rather than later, so we will have a chance to stop it from becoming policy.
I fear you may be right, but I hope not.
Abortion advocates are a cult dedicated to murdering innocents as violently as possible.
Then you are mistaken. I simply don't see the need to make everything a Catholic vs. non-Catholic issue.
Many Catholics are pro-abortion, so are many Baptists, Calvinists, and other Protestants. The FACT is that the Catholic Church has ALWAYS been pro-life (despite the heretical views of some priests), many Protestant denominations (including many with Calvinist roots) CANNOT say this.
If you really want to have this debate, start your own thread, this one had NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church, YOU decided to bring that issue up. When my dear FRiend xzins posts a pro-life thread I wouldn't dream of going on the thread and trying to bring Methodism into it when the thread has nothing to do with the Methodists, there would be no reason to.
But, in answer to your previous query, I don't think any of us know for an absolute certainty what happens to an aborted baby because I am unaware of any Scripture that directly addresses the state of an aborted baby. Obviously the dead cannot be baptized. Then again, without birth it is impossible to be born into sin. Do I believe the 50 million American babies who have been murdered in the last 36 years are in Heaven? ABSOLUTELY.
Scripture says something else...
*** ***
Jeremiah 1: 4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
6 "Ah, Sovereign LORD," I said, "I do not know how to speak; I am only a child."
*** ***
Hosea 12: 2 The LORD has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he grasped his brother's heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4 He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.
He found him at Bethel
and talked with him there-
*** ***
John 3: 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son
*** ***
John 4: 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
*** ***
We are all made in the image of God. God is a Spirit. Ergo, God is not concerned with the flesh! He knows we cannot stand faultless before Him.
God knows our spirits from the womb. There is nothing in Scripture that says all go to Heaven. It actually says the opposite.
He is risen...
NONE of those verses address the state of a person who was NEVER born. Or are you saying that some souls are simply damned to Hell by God and NOTHING can change that?
I can't definitively answer that, but there are plenty of Scriptures along those lines...
John 3: 5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." ...
*** ***
Romans 6: ... 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. ...
- with love from Jesus and Paul
How can one who has NEVER been born be born again?
Are you saying that a baby in the womb is not a person? Are you saying that God is unable to know the future as well as the past and present?
Are you arguing with God, or me? I haven't created anything, nor do I have special revelations from Him. I only have His Word as revealed in the Scriptures, testimonies, and letters that we call our "Holy Bible", and the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide me and help me understand it...
Your understanding could be distorted if you find otherwise. Please respond with the Word of God, not the yearnings of your heart.
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