Attempt to debunk Obama's Kenyan birth certificate debunked (Barry name change legal?)

Examiner.com ^ | August 5, 2009 | Geoff Linsley

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Along with the introduction of what appears to be the most valid-looking Obama birth certificate came an almost immediate attempt to debunk it. This attempt was immediately eaten up by MSNBC, Obama’s main propaganda network, by hosts like Keith Olbermann.

 

The main argument of this attempt to debunk the certificate is that Kenya hadn’t yet become a republic at the time the document was dated: Feb 14, 1964. The argument is that Kenya was officially declared a republic in December of that year.

The second most important argument is that the region he was born in wasn’t called Mombasa at the time: it was instead Zanzibar.

Another argument is that the hospital he was supposedly born in was called “Coast Provincial General Hospital,” yet the document says “Coast General Hospital.”

One more argument is that his father’s address has within it “Nyanza Province,” but at the time it would have been called “Central Nyanza District.”

The final argument is that his father would have been 24 or 25 at the time, not 26, as the document states.

 

There are other suspicious, circumstantial arguments, too.

The document number is said to be 47O44, seemingly a compilation of his age as of the time the document was obtained “47,” his presidential order “44,” and an O for Obama.

Also, the Signature of the Registrar’s name is E.F. Lavender, an abbreviation of a name of detergent called “Earth Friendly Lavender.”

 

At first look, this seems like a lot of evidence that the document is a forgery. That is, until we actually take the time to dissect these claims.

 

Kenya was first announced as the “Republic of Kenya” in the country’s Constitution, dated Dec. 12, 1963. It is claimed that everything wasn’t official with the name change until Dec. 1964, which is true; however, it took a year to make this gradual change. It didn’t happen in one day. "CHAPTER I - THE REPUBLIC OF KENYA, Article 1, Kenya is a sovereign Republic. Article 1A, The Republic of Kenya shall be a multiparty democratic state…" The 1964 date that people are confusing involves an act of the British Parliament in regard to the Commonwealth of Nations, not the origin of the Republic.

 

The “Central Nyanza District” argument is just total hogwash. The area changed names to “Nyanza Province” even before his dad was born there.

 

The absence of “Provincial” in the hospital’s name is irrelevant. You can find it named with and without that word in its title from multiple sources.

 

Mombasa became part of Kenya in 1963, so having the document obtained in 1964 would require a name change of his place of origin from Zanzibar to Mombasa.

Barack Obama, Jr. was born in Aug., 1961.    Barack Obama, Sr.’s birthday is more obscure. It is said he was born in 1936, but no specific date is given. If this is true, it would make him 25. As the actual date is obscure, it doesn’t appear to be a huge dilemma that he may have been born instead in 1935. In addition, birth certificates aren’t necessary for the creation of new ones. Am I off-base to think Barack Jr. may have learned his trick of birth secrecy from someone?

 

Well that sums up the important arguments. Now for the circumstantial ones.

 

I don’t really even understand what is funny about having “E. F. Lavender” as a Registrar. Couldn’t a forger have come up with a funnier name? What does a dish detergent have to do with any of this? Do people think no one is named E.F. Lavender? Here’s a picture of Eric Lavender in Uganda, which neighbors Kenya. Maybe this is the guy? One guy even told me he saw Registrar Lavender’s plaque in the Registrar’s office. I guess I don’t even understand why people consider this an issue. If I were forging the document, I’d rather put a funnier, more relevant name in that slot, like B. M. Helfmovment.

 

The only interesting thing about the birth certificate to me is the file number, but even this has been fudged slightly. It is said that the number is “47O44” from propaganda issuers like Keith Olbermann. There is no O in the number, it’s a 0. That’s zero if you still can’t tell the difference. I admit the other numbers are coincidental, but I think it is far too assumptive to mean they discredit anything. I know I’ve had much bigger coincidences happen in my life.

 

The goal of this article is not to say that the birth certificate is 100% authentic. It may be a hoax. The goal of the article is to show that the Obama sheeple are clinging to debunking propaganda, which for all we know may have been initiated by the Obama campaign itself, in order to try to maintain the idea that their leader is innocent. We don’t know if it’s legitimate, yet. But right now, the birth certificate has not been properly debunked. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. Taitz’s court date is set for December. Other lawyers from across the country are on top of many of the other issues regarding the birth certificate problem.

 

Many sheeple have been questioning why the birthers have been claiming that this might be real when it is a copy and not the original, like the Hawaiian one birthers want to see. The reason is that this is a copy of an actual registration. The Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth isn’t a copy of a real birth certificate. They could be obtained by citizens who weren’t naturally born. Obama’s sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, was born in Indonesia. No one disputes this. Guess what? She has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, too.  How can this be? Hawaiian law didn’t require people to be natural born citizens, born in Hawaii, in order to obtain one. Therefore, Obama hasn’t showed anything resembling proof of his citizenship. This is why this birther thing is still an issue! How can it be solved? All that is required to put all of this to rest is for Obama to give Hawaii permission, in his presidential capacity, to show people the long-form certificate. It’s that simple to resolve. So, why all the secrecy?

 

How did it all start? It started when Obama was caught using fake birth certificates with aliases like Barry Soetoro and Barry Dunham, which caused people to question who he was. There is also evidence that he never legally changed his name from Barry Soetoro back to Barack Obama. If this is found true, Obama may be guilty of several counts of fraud!

 

The birther issue is not about race. It’s about the law. Birthers do have motivation, but it is generally rooted in politics, not race. This is not to say that some aren’t racist, but it is just pure ignorance to claim that all of them are. My motivation, for example, is that I don’t like Obama’s communist ideals. I’m a libertarian. Right-wingers like the idea of freedom and limited government. We aren’t nuts or racist because of this. I personally believe that, if left unchecked, the Obama administration would destroy many of the last vestiges of freedom in this country. To me, he is like Bush, but worse. Just look at what he’s doing in Afghanistan. This is an acceleration of Bush’s failed policies! Why can’t people see past Olbermann and MSNBC’s lies and see what’s right in front of them?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

When did Barry Soetoro legally change his name to Barack Obama?

There is no evidence that he did, which means that he was not elected President because his legal name did not appear on the ballot.

[silverleaf]

We the people don’t know what name he used the second time he was sworn in by Justice Roberts, do we?

[steve-b]

LOL! Birther cranks strain at the gnat of being given the standard Hawaii birth document instead of some alleged Sooper Sekrit “long form”, and then swallow the herd of camels accompanying this obvious forgery. If it came out that this “Kenya Birth Certificate” had been faxed from the Kinko’s in Abilene, Texas as part of a deal where somebody sent his bank account data to a former Nigerian prince, these moonbats would find a way to rationalize that, too.

[Mojave]

Willard Romney.

[Galtoid]

What is the most effective way to fool most of the sheeple? At the age of 44, you write an autobiography full of lies, falsehoods, and inaccurate claims. You simply pen a myth about yourself, knowing the media and the stupid Democrats will drool over it, not ever even entertaining the thought of vetting it for truth and accuracy. Obama is a foreign imposter and usurper! Something has got to be done to remove this fraud from the Oval Office!

[steve-b]

Kenya was first announced as the “Republic of Kenya” in the country’s Constitution, dated Dec. 12, 1963. It is claimed that everything wasn’t official with the name change until Dec. 1964, which is true; however, it took a year to make this gradual change. It didn’t happen in one day. "CHAPTER I - THE REPUBLIC OF KENYA, Article 1, Kenya is a sovereign Republic. Article 1A, The Republic of Kenya shall be a multiparty democratic state…" The 1964 date that people are confusing involves an act of the British Parliament in regard to the Commonwealth of Nations, not the origin of the Republic.

I followed the link, and can't find where the article provides an example of a known genuine Kenyan birth certificate from that date (heck, that month would do) that gives the nation's name as "Republic of Kenya". I'm sure this oversight will be corrected soon; perhaps I ought to drop the author a line....

[nikos1121]

“Many sheeple have been questioning why the birthers have been claiming that this might be real when it is a copy and not the original, like the Hawaiian one birthers want to see. The reason is that this is a copy of an actual registration. The Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth isn’t a copy of a real birth certificate. They could be obtained by citizens who weren’t naturally born. Obama’s sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, was born in Indonesia. No one disputes this. Guess what? She has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, too. How can this be? Hawaiian law didn’t require people to be natural born citizens, born in Hawaii, in order to obtain one. Therefore, Obama hasn’t showed anything resembling proof of his citizenship. This is why this birther thing is still an issue! How can it be solved? All that is required to put all of this to rest is for Obama to give Hawaii permission, in his presidential capacity, to show people the long-form certificate. It’s that simple to resolve. So, why all the secrecy?”

I think this pretty much puts in proper perspective for the air heads out there like Olbermann and O ‘Reilly and Ann Coulter etc.

The vast majority of us here are not kooks and scoundrels. Why all this energy in determining whether we are or not and whether the president is or isn’t...?

WHY NOT SHOW YOUR GD LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE.. AND BE DONE WITH THIS, MR. PRESIDENT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! QUIT BEING SUCH AN @SS HOLE ABOUT IT....

[Old Texan]

Steve-b, How did you know I live in Abilene. I didn’t get a fax ever, I swear, LOL

[nikos1121]

Don’t think I understand what you’re saying... or maybe I do. Speak plainly on what you mean to say, please.

[nikos1121]

This is true. Everything we know of this guy is from, guess who? HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine if this were the case with G W?

I’m past the stage of laughing about this...

Just produce your real birth records along with the other documents of your education and work.

[steve-b]

This thing makes the Bush National Guard documents used by Dan Rather look like the model of authenticity. That clear enough for ya?

[Mount Athos]

The author of this article is citing a modern 1998 constitution and insisting it is a 1963 one. Funny!

On the document he cites it says, "Revised Edition (1998) 1992"

He also neglected to mention that the 1963 constitution makes the queen of enland the head of state, letting her nominate the commander in chief and governor general. The document has "her majesty" all over the place.

It's a constitutional monarchy, not a republic.
They didn't have a president on Dec 12th, 1963.

[nikos1121]

I fail to see where he provided a link to Kenyan BC. Can you show us?

[agere_contra]

You won't find the bulk of FReepers insisting that the Orly Taitz B/C is genuine.

You will find them insisting that it has not been authenticated, nor has it been debunked. This is Orly Taitz's own position.

The real issue, repeated many times on these threads, and just now by you, is as follows.

Does the B/C match other B/Cs of the same period?

Does the book and register number match a record in the Birth registry?

And do the details in the registry match?

These items alone are important. Any assumptions the brownshirt media might have about Mombasan registration workflow and letterheading fifty years ago are simply not relevant to the discussion. Only the primary sources matter.

[steve-b]

The even more fundamental problem is that no government documents from a corrupt Third World state can be relied upon very much. That makes this hoaxer's failure to come up with a more convincing fake all the more pathetic, when you think about it.

[P.O.E.]

“These allegations are false... and I need to get back to work for the American people.” - Bill Clinton

[NRPM]

I think the main argument in debunking it is that it’s an almost exact copy of one from Australia down to the names and numbers. It’s in the Oops thread post 291.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2307402/posts?q=1&;page=251

[nikos1121]

I think the author of this article says from the start, that the Kenyan BC may be a forgery.

My problem with it, is that is has an embossed raised seal. In other words, it’s an original copy of the copy of his Kenyan BC.

Therefore, where did come from? It implies that it was stolen.

For example, my BC copy has an embossed seal.

This raises the speculation that it may have been in the divorce papers of his mother, when she filed for divorce in the 1964, the date on the Kenyan document.

So who clapped it?

The fact that she’s not telling us who the anonymous donor is, smacks with a big question mark.

I’ve said all along, that this document may have been planted by the Obama people to discredit this movement.

I for one, look askance at this. I don’t really care about whether he was born here or not.

I want to know about the other things. Like the courses he took in college... his calendar as State Congressman...His law school writings... His Hawaiian education.

Why is it you can go, or your used to go to Dixon and Eureka and there would old timers telling stories of young Reagan.

Where are the stories about this guy?

Where he did get ALL THIS MONEY to out finance Hillary? Where?

I suspect it was from foreign sources in Saudi and Syria and Iran etc. etc.

And no doubt he got alot from the likes of Chavez and maybe even this guy Zalaya (sp?) in Hondurus...

If we agree, it’s to agree that we shouldn’t put anymore energy in this Kenyan BC.

In the meantime Mr. President...QUIT ACTING LIKE AN @SS HOLE AND PRODUCE THESE DOCUMENTS.

[TheCipher]

You will find them insisting that it has not been authenticated, nor has it been debunked. This is Orly Taitz's own position.

People are missing the point on this one. It doesn't matter whether it is real or not. What we now have are two conflicting pieces of digital evidence ( Obamas COLB and the Kenyan BC ). The only way for the judge in CA to resolve this is to order discovery of the actual hard copies from Hawaii ( he can have the State Department request them from Kenya, but in all reality, they don't have to comply ). The main reason for producing this document now is to force production of the Hawaii BC.

[agere_contra]

Ah, I see.

Despite your calls for the document to be tested against known documents of the right time and place, you are dogmatically convinced that it’s a hoax.

You call for supporting documents. However - typical lefty tactic - you inoculate your position against the truth by insisting that any supporting evidence that the ‘hoaxer’ DOES turn up will just be proof of his/her incompetence, in not bribing someone sooner.

So any new data that turns up will confirm you in your delusion.

Your position is intellectually dishonest: please snap out of it. Joint the rest of us, who remain ready to be convinced of the truth whatever it might be.