Posted on 08/04/2009 7:33:27 PM PDT by pissant
A document unveiled by a California attorney in her quest to determine President Obama's place of birth has been condemned as a forgery by critics who deride as nonsense the challenges that have been raised to the president based on the U.S. Constitution's demand that the Oval Office occupant be a "natural born" citizen.
But those on the other side, who would like to see the original documentation of Obama's birth place revealed, say there are factors that indicate the Kenyan birth document could be real.
WND reported when the document was submitted to a California court by California attorney Orly Taitz, who has managed several of the high-profile cases challenging Obama's eligibility to be president.
Then yesterday, Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., raised the dispute to the floor of that august body, protesting in a speech added to the Congressional Record that the dispute was not worth one minute of time.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
You are out to lunch ...
If you were following the story instead of trying to prove that we have all been duped you would know that Bomford ...(the innocent Aussie who birth certificate was used as a template for forgery) is now a web/ graphic designer in Scottland who cooked the whole thing up
Start reading
Probably best to post that with a "this is a joke" disclaimer.
We gotta be careful and truthful.
Lol.
“Records stored in volumes, as most land and vital records are, deteriorate faster than those stored in archival boxes and folders.”
http://www.vermont-towns.org/Munrec/munrprt.htm
Events are recorded on cards measuring 3 3/8 by 7 3/4 inches. Each card contains a single event. The cards are filed in row upon row of oak filing drawers. To access information, the researcher must look up the drawer location of the record on a finding chart. The filing system is unique and usually confuses the uninitiated. Records are filed according to the first and third letter of the surname. The researcher must submit a request slip with the name sought and the drawer number to the volunteer in charge of the research room. The volunteer then retrieves the file drawer and selects a group of cards, which should include the desired record.
http://www.newenglandancestors.org/research/services/articles_newhampshire_resources_vital.asp
One important aspect of records management is the need for the created records to be adequately maintained for use (Uwaifo, 2004). There is the need for proper storage medium, filing procedures, so as to facilitate quick and easy access to the record when required. Library storage facilities for records include wooden shelves/rack, steel cabinets, drawers, catalogue cabinets, files, cardboard boxes etc.
http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~mbolin/akporhonor-iwhiwhu.htm
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john in springfield
Since Oct 24, 2008
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There's nothing to read at that link but this:
"There is currently no text in this tube, you can search for these words in other tubes or unload your gut into this tube"
I guess the spoof was fun while it lasted.
Parafield Gardens is a suburb about 9 miles from the heart of downtown Adelaide.
Thank you for that classic ad hominem attack.
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. I’ve mentioned this 10-20 times, in great detail. You’re the first person to give me any sort of answer either way. You are saying that they did use books and pages. I do not know.
In Kenya, there were not Birth Certificates. The only record is in a book. When the birth document was requested, the book was found and the document was created.
I still have not yet seen any Australian birth doc with book and page on it. Yes, there aren’t many, but there are some going back to 1939, and they don’t include the words “book” and “page”. I’m talking about naming conventions, classification systems. I’m not sure that you know if they used the naming classifications of “book” and “page”.
And in terms of the “pwned”, I don’t thing there were many, if any, that have said that they’re sure the Kenyan doc was legit. About Bomford himself, there are some who think he was in on it in some way, others who think he didn’t have the hard copy to compare it to, and others, like yourself, who believe he was telling the truth and the Aussie doc is legit.
And what bothers me is that there are various flaws with the Aussie doc that others have mentioned, but the MSM jumped to the conclusion that the Aussie doc was legit and didn’t give it a seconds thought. I’d like to see the smug MSM knocked down.
We’ll just have to see. I do appreciate that you answered my question on point.
Not an attack......just a fact to be taken into consideration.
You are saying that they did use books and pages. I do not know.
Not really. To be perhaps much more precise in my own answer, I'm saying that I don't know either, but I would just about be surprised if they didn't, certainly in 1964.
And this is based on my own personal experiences (which, granted, is in the United States) of going through public records dating from that era and earlier. All of the public records I've encountered in my own experience were stored in books. And documents referring to those records indexed them by book and page.
I did do at least some online search for Australian birth certificate images, but the problem is that the vast majority of the ones I've found online, even of certificates from say the 1960s or so, seem to be copies that were produced after computerization took over. For example, a certificate of someone born in 1960 that was produced in 2002.
And yes, there were some that I didn't see any kind of book or page reference on.
It seems to me that maybe there are often actual one-page certificates, and then there are records in books. We really need an Australian who knows about public records to weigh in to bring any real authority to the discussion.
From a random post, found in three minutes search at Ancestry's South Australia message board:
One of my distant Victoria rellies married a man from South Australia, had one child in VIC – then disappeared from the Victorian indexes. Perhaps he moved back to SA, took her and the babe with him, and reared a family there:
Joseph WHITE, b. 25 Oct 1850, Adelaide, SA (per index ref: SA, Book 3, #124)
That's only one of several posts on the South Australia board referencing Books and Page numbers for birth, marriage and death records, up to and including the 20th Century. Australia was a British colony. The British government set up a BMC registration system the same way they did in Ireland and other colonies: the event was recorded in a book at the Registrar's office and indexed in the general records as a book and page number.
Um... yeah.
"So when did you stop beating your wife?"
Look, if you can refute the points and reasoning given, then refute the points and reasoning given.
Honestly, I would've loved for the Kenyan certificate to have turned out to be genuine. And maybe I'm wrong, but pretty much all of the evidence I've seen says it's a fraud.
And personally, no, I don't believe Obama is constitutionally qualified to be President. But as I've stated elsewhere (you can look in my previous posts), the evidence that I see is his spending a vast amount of money -from what I understand, probably between $500,000 and $1,000,000 - in legal fees to avoid showing a $10 long form birth certificate.
What some fail to understand (in my opinion) is that jumping on something like a "Kenyan birth certificate" that is not genuine and is only going to be loudly and publicly demonstrated to be a fraud is NOT going to help things. In fact, as I stated earlier, I wondered whether this certificate might simply bait to paint Orly Taitz as a fool.
Such as:
If Obama is qualified to be President of the United States, then why has he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid showing a $10 long form birth certificate?
Next step would be to look toward Adelaide 1960 specifically...
Look on ancestry for Kenya book/line refs also. See which numbers are closer.
You could really help your argument on this point at least if you could post a link to an Australian Birth doc that did mention book and page.
If my argument is that I have seen a few Australian Birth Docs, not many, but a few, and none have used book and page, and you can find one with book and page, it would tend to weaken my argument.
The “why the match” argument is the strongest for me, leaving book and page aside.
Lavender, Miller and 44B 5733 all match.
Why do they match?
Well, of course because one was copied from the other.
What are the ramifications of the match?
Well, it calls the documents into question.
Who benefits from calling the documents into question?
People who want to see to documents called into question.
It is more likely that the documents were intentionally made to match by people who wanted to call the documents into question than the documents were accidentally or negligently made to match by someone who didn’t want them to match.
(Now that I think of it, that just rules out accidental error in the case of the Kenyan doc. Either the Kenyan doc or the Aussie doc could have been made by someone who wanted to call the doc into question.)
We’ll have to see what happens.
Currency.
The Currency in Kenya since 1921 has been in Shillings and CENTS.
“A brief monetary history:
* Indian currency, till 1905
* British East Africa Rupee = (Indian Rupee) = 100 Cents, till 1920
* British East Africa Florin = (Rupee) = 100 Cents, 1920-1921
* British East Africa Shilling = (1/2 Florin) = 100 Cents, 1921-1966
* Kenya Shilling = (East Africa Shilling) = 100 Cents, from 1966 “
Up until 14 February 1966, Australian Currency was in Pounds, Shillings, and Pence. A typical price might be 7 shillings and 6 pence, usually written as 7s 6d
In Kenya, 7 East African Shillings and 6 cents would be written as 7s 6c
That would be a little odd, though not impossible. 7s and 50c would be fine, even 7s and 10c or 7s and 5c.
They’d stopped issuing 1c coins in 1962, as the bronze they were made of was worth far more than 1/100 of a shilling, or about 1/5 of a 1962 US cent. But not impossible, bureaucracies take a long time to change.
Source : Krause, Chester L. and Clifford Mishler (2003). 2004 Standard Catalog of World Coins: 1901–Present. Colin R. Bruce II (senior editor) (31st ed. ed.). Krause Publications. ISBN 0873495934.
Of course maybe the “7s 6d” on the supposed Kenyan certificate means something else entirely, and is purely by coincidence in the same spot as the “7s 6d” price on the South Australian one.
And if you believe that, I have a Wonderful Harbour Bridge to sell you. Cash please, no cheques.
Then why not post one online for everyone to see?
Well, I’m starting to get some good answers. Not the answers I want, but answers nonetheless. And I guess this exercise can be productive if we can see who’s around 44B in both places.
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