Shocked. SHOCKED. Astoturfing Exists. ... Now What? (Town Hellers and ObamaCare)

The Atlantic ^ | August 4, 2009 | Marc Ambinder

[2ndDivisionVet]

In eight years of writing about politics, nothing gets people angrier than when I try to make the case that most activists and most journalists practice politics differently, have different worldviews, and are both forces for good in the democracy. 3....2....

It is easy and comfortable to assume that because you've discovered the presence of Astroturf activism, there is no there there, or there is nothing that sustains or nourishes the Astroturfing. The point is not to question whether conservatives are artificially magnifying their voices -- yes of course they are, predictably and not in secret -- it's that real anxiety and real enthusiasm provide a catalyst for the Astroturfing to work -- and the Astroturfing provides a catalyst for the anxiety and enthusiasm to manifest.

Peter Daou makes some provocative arguments here -- the liberal base is a bit disillusioned with Obama, Republicans sense opportunity, etc, and I think he is right. And I think that other liberals who assume that somehow because they associate THEIR side with reasoned argument and the OTHER side with blatant demagoguery, the argument ought to be closed -- well, they're replicating the mistake that disillusioned partisans tend to make: if it ain't going right, it MUST be because some outside factor -- usually the media -- is screwing up. Sometimes the media does screw it up. Sometimes, it's just screwed up.

Democrats were able to defeat President Bush on Social Security because they found a way to capitalize on inherent skepticism about forcing that cherished institution to change.(continued)

[2ndDivisionVet]

Comments?

[FLAMING DEATH]

In this case, I think, if there was astroturfing with regards to health care, it simply served the role of the little boy who finally yelled, “The Emperor Has No Clothes”.

IOW, the astroturfers just happened to get out the message that a lot of people were already thinking.

I know I have become more involved as a result of it, and I’ve not been involved with any astroturfing. I’m just pissed off.

[bray]

I haven’t seen any busses or pre-made signs like you see at the Dem protests. Usually you have to park a block away cause everyone drives themselves. This is Democracy at its purist and they hate it.

Pray for America

[trailboss800]

From the Portland, OR Craigslist: Liberal astroturfing is rampant...

***Environmental Activists Needed! $400-$600/week*** - (SE Portland) img <<nonprofit

*FULL TIME Protect the Planet from Corporate Greed! - $1500-$3300/mo - img <<nonprofit

*FT Work for Greenpeace to STOP GLOBAL WARMING - $1500-$3300/mon* - img <<nonprofit

Campus Organizer - Training the Next Generation of Activists - (Portland) <<nonprofit

***Help Pass Obama’s ENERGY Plan*** $9-$14/hr - (SE Portland) img <<nonprofit

[bareford101]

“birthers” (aka constitutionalists)

“anti-birthers” (aka Marxist Obama minions and constitutional illiterates)

[sergeantdave]

Sorry.

Another screwed-up, convulted diatribe from Atlantic Monthly. It would take me three six-packs, a fifth of Jim Beam, a dozen sub sandwiches and spectacular fireworks to make sense of it.

Not in the mood for personal discovery tonight.

Atlantic Monthly fiction query:

I walked over Penny Bridge and looked down on Werewolve Lane. My sister disappeared there 40 years ago, after Ted Kennedy drowned and murdered Mary Jo....

REJECT!! REJECT!!!

Oh, crap....

[bitterohiogunclinger]

Pure rubbish. “Astroturfing” is a trademarked tactic of the DemonRAT party. This article and the comments below are prime examples of “straw man” arguments.
“I've read nothing that leads me to believe” is a prime example of either an uneducated moron that can't read, or a sycophant Obama supporter that out and out lies about what is plainly printed in black and white.
As to those “whining” about “Republicans” interfering with the Democratic process, I give you this advice. Your Marxist agenda has been exposed, Americas eyes are opened. Your continued pushing for your agenda and ignoring the Constitution and the will of the people will bring ruin on you for generations.

[Kimberly GG]

What would Obama know about organizing/astroturfing? /s

Pot/Kettle/Black if you ask me. It’s about time we got organized! ‘Cept I doubt a single one of those who’ve protested at town meetings has been paid/coerced/etc. by an insurance company to be there.

[mojitojoe]

It' ENORMOUSLY effective and I believe he would not be in the WH without it. The RNC still doesn't get it. Once again the paid bloggers are out in force to promote health care and they are organized. I saw one yesterday on You Tube and I took a screen shot. I don't know why Freepers can't organize and do the same. Also read the article below the pictures. Sorry for the source, but the message is what counts.

One of the many ways that the election of Barack Obama as president has echoed that of John F. Kennedy is his use of a new medium that will forever change politics. For Mr. Kennedy, it was television. For Mr. Obama, it is the Internet.

“Were it not for the Internet, Barack Obama would not be president. Were it not for the Internet, Barack Obama would not have been the nominee,” said Arianna Huffington, editor in chief of The Huffington Post.

Mr. Obama used the Internet to organize his supporters in a way that would have in the past required an army of volunteers and paid organizers on the ground, Mr. Trippi said.

“The tools changed between 2004 and 2008. Barack Obama won every single caucus state that matters, and he did it because of those tools, because he was able to move thousands of people to organize.”

Mr. Obama’s campaign took advantage of YouTube for free advertising. Mr. Trippi argued that those videos were more effective than television ads because viewers chose to watch them or received them from a friend instead of having their television shows interrupted.

“The campaign’s official stuff they created for YouTube was watched for 14.5 million hours,” Mr. Trippi said. “To buy 14.5 million hours on broadcast TV is $47 million.”

There has also been a sea change in fact-checking, with citizens using the Internet to find past speeches that prove a politician wrong and then using the Web to alert their fellow citizens.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/how-obamas-internet-campaign-changed-politics/

[Almondjoy]

Yes... please. I heard this astroturfiing comment on liberal talk radio this morning and by this evening I still have no idea what people are talking about.

[Tainan]

Look up Rushs’ explanation of “Astro-turfing” in the programs notes of his 3rd hour of his 04 aug show. He explains it clearly and concisely.

It is ‘the creation of a myth’ pure and simple.

[RushIsMyTeddyBear]

‘Astroturfing’ was invented by Axelrod.

[anymouse]

[Betty Jane]

Astroturfing is a fake grassroots campaign. Dems pay people to get on a bus, hold signs, and protest, hence astroturfing. Republicans on the other hand get angry, talk to their friends, find out where to be and go, real grassroots.

[dalereed]

What is astroturfing, enviros replacing their lawns with fake grass?

[2ndDivisionVet]

“Astroturfing” is a term for faking a “grassroots” organization. Artificial grassroots, so to speak. Invented by David Axelrod, an Obama advisor. Now they’re accusing the GOP, insurance companies, “Big Pharma” and others of being behind: The “birthers”, tea parties, congressional town hall demonstrations, “healthers”, the posters of Obama as the Joker and on, and on...

[micro-faraday]

You seem to be a good person to ask this of. I know I risk getting kicked out of the group for this, as I have seen others booted for far less risky behavior, but personally I can’t shake the notion that health care, like the defense industry, ought to be special. I am talking about profitting. I agree that as defending the nation became more technological, we needed the advances that come from competition, hence the need for the profit motive. But how can you justify permitting a company to make huge profits (and hence million dollar salaries) in the provision of health insurance? Simply explain to me where is the need for the incentive that profit gives? The reason I ask is, I know things, for a variety of reasons, look extremely rosy for the 2010 elections. But the current behavior shown on TV screens across the country of people shouting at meetings instead of encouraging a thoughtful debate about health insurance could, mark my words, damage us. I’m certain you’ll disagree, but I want you to see my motive for asking the question. (It’s similar to the concern I expressed elsewhere when Glenn Beck appeared to agree with a guy who suggested we’d all be better off if bin Laden set off a nuke inside the country.)

[sinanju]

It’s quite simple really, people don’t work for free. Both (a good deal of) health care and K-12 education are somehow regarded as too “sacred” to be left to the cruel, uncaring marketplace as a result, they’re run by uncaring, unionized bureaucrats who get paid no matter what they deliver.

The Defense Industry consists of a number of large private companies and a whole hell of a lot of subcontractors and suppliers, some of whom work exclusively on defense contracts and some whose business is only partially defense related. They have to turn a profit to survive. In a Murtha-free world they would have to bid on contracts based soley on quality, price and delivering on schedule.

Too much of medicine and medical insurance has become divorced from the profit motive (efficiency, economy, effectiveness, customer satisfaction, etc.) because of the third-party payer insurance system. As for the state-run Medicare, Medicaid, and VA systems, they have become unaffordable, inefficient, fraud-ridden, boondooggles. Because bureaucrats set the prices and reimbursements to doctors and hospitals for various medical procedures and drugs administered and pile on the red tape, fewer and fewer physicians can afford to take on Medicare and Medicaid patients. The estimated unfunded liabilities of these programs now reach into the scores of trillions of dollars.

Now cometh Obama who basically wants to extend Medicare to all. He and his congresscritter allies insist that they will be able to make this expanded system work with magical efficiency and economy and they expect us peasants to be dumb enough to believe them.

[bitterohiogunclinger]

Snip
“ Simply explain to me where is the need for the incentive that profit gives?”
It's easy to become confused over the subject of economic theory, and I'm not an expert in that subject. What causes you to become the victim of “incorrect thinking” is the emotional tug that liberals have exposed you too.

It's easy for those with a liberal viewpoint to win arguments based on the emotional appeal. For example, the “obscene profits” moniker given towards whatever group they are attacking currently. The same tactic is used almost every time, just substitute the words “big oil”, “big pharmacy”, etc. (they never seem to use the term “big labor” however). The flaw in the argument is that there is nothing “immoral”, “illegal” or fattening about profit, regardless of the size.

At the smallest level, i.e. the single entrepreneur, the profit motive works beautifully and simply. You decide to go into business as a plumber. You may or may not have any skills or special training in the field, that's really not relevant. You buy some tools, a truck, and some jeans that ride down the crack of you butt, and take out an add or put up a sign. Sooner or later someone calls you because they need your services. You and they agree to a price and you do the work and all is well. You are free to set your price, they are free to go elsewhere or pay your price.

Your success or failure is entirely up to your skills in attracting business, satisfying customers and making large amounts of money. You'll need the latter because you still have to pay the government for the privilege of allowing you to be hard working, creative, and taking a risk. But notice there is no mention of “obscene profits”. Everybody is happy, and you are free to invest your profits to hire helpers, advertise or settle frivolous lawsuits against you from people that desire to get rich quick.

The same example will apply to doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs, and even dirty old big corporations. If everyone involved does not act unethically, no matter how large the dollar amounts involved, it boils down to exchange for goods and services.

It only became immoral when liberals decided to pit one group against the other to achieve their desired goals, namely to get something for nothing. Don't be confused by liberalism, they are trying to demonize their target, “big insurance” to achieve their goal which is “fascism”. The obscene profits they are talking about have greased the wheels of the economy for hundreds of years.

It's only when politicians get involved that the balance of exchange gets skewed to line the pockets of the real villains.

Far from being excoriated for voicing an opinion contrary to “group think”, you should be applauded for asking questions. As to the last part, I'll defer to someone else. Personally, I think everyone so far is only getting warmed up. The left hasn't seen real rage yet, but they are pushing everyone towards it.

[Madame Dufarge]

Astroturfing: