Posted on 07/28/2009 8:55:15 PM PDT by DouglasKC
Is the State of Hawaii trying to help "birthers" by giving clues to Obama "late" birth certificate?
What is a "late" registration birth certificate?
If you were born in the state of Hawaii but your birth was never registered there you can apply for a late registered birth certificate.
The Hawaii Department of Health says this:
Who is Eligible to Apply for Late Registration?
As provided by law (HRS §§338-15, 338-29.5), the following persons may apply for late registration:
* Any person born in Hawaii who is one year old or older and whose birth has not been previously registered in Hawaii, or that person’s parent, guardian, next of kin, or older person acting for that person and having knowledge of the facts of birth may request the registration of a late certificate of birth, except that an application will not be accepted for a deceased person.
Let's say you're 46 years old and were born in Hawaii...but for some reason never had your birth registered with Hawaii. You can apply for a late birth certificate by providing evidence that you were born in Hawaii. The acceptance of this evidence is a function of the department of health.
This evidence is then used to produce a Certification of Live Birth.
Note that you can have a Certification of Live Birth issued based upon evidence you provide. For all intents and purposes the state of Hawaii has now you issued you an original birth certificate...46 years after the fact.
Are you with me so far?
Suppose for a moment that Barak Hussein Obama's birth was never registered in Hawaii...for whatever reason. Maybe his parents forgot because he was born at home. Maybe he was born in another state. Or another country. Whatever.
He of course has no birth certificate from Hawaii. So he applies for a late registered birth certificate sometime in 2007 or maybe 2008.
When he does that, by law, the state of Hawaii is affirming that he was born in Hawaii...despite there not being a long form birth certificate and despite there never being any record before.
The Fukino Statements
Hawaii State Health Department director Chiyome Fukino M.D. has issued two press releases concerning Barak Obama's birth certificate. I'm sure most would agree that it's highly unusual for this to happen. Most "birthers" and most "anti-birthers" believe that she is helping Barak Obama by providing verification that he truly was born in Hawaii. But is she? Let's examine the two statements and compare them.
For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93 STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
Statement two:
For Immediate Release: July 27, 2009 09-063 STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
There are two thing that stand out. Statement 1 says "original birth certificate". Most birthers and anti-birthers believe this refers to an original, long form birth certificate. But it doesn't have to. If it were a late birth certificate filed for and created in 2007 then it would be the "original" birth certificate. Please note that it is ONE piece of paper.
How about the second statement? There is a small, but significant change:
"have seen the original vital records maintained on file"
Vital RECORDS...plural. Not vital record, as in A birth certificate. Records. Plural.
Now that's strange isn't it? Not so strange if the vital records are the evidence submitted by Obama to verify his birth in Hawaii.
Let me put it another way. Let's say I wasn't born in Hawaii, but I want a birth certificate from there. What would I do? I would apply for a LATE birth certificate. What evidence would I give? Why, I lived there for a number of years. My grandma signs a statement saying I was born there. I produce a letter I wrote to the Kapoliani center affirming my birth there. I appeal to a biography I wrote. And if it's good enough, they say "Ok, you were born here. We'll make you a Certification of Live Birth based upon the evidence you've given us.
This evidence then becomes the vital RECORDS to prove that I was born there.
But what if I'm fooling them? It doesn't matter. If they issue an original birth certificate based upon submitted evidence then they are affirming that he was born there.
But what if you worked in the Hawaii Department of Health and KNEW about this? You couldn't violate the law by saying it. So you usually carefully parsed statements designed to help investigators.
Reactions Makes Sense
This explains the reactions of many of our political leaders. The state of Hawaii DID affirm that he was born there even though he may not have been born there! He could have been born in...oh say..Kenya...and since the state of Hawaii said he was born there, he was born there. The only way to prove otherwise is to FIND a birth record from somewhere else that is authentic and even then...well...it would be quite the court battle and would drag on for years. Politicians want to be elected. They don't want one issue hanging around their necks for years.
The Reaction of the Left
Have you noticed how loud and strident the anti-birthers have been for the last week or so? What if they KNEW that Fukino was going to issue a new statement, but didn't know exactly what was in the statement? They would of course want to decry and belittle the whole notion of "birthers" as crackpots so the statement wouldn't be examined closely.
But look at the statements. Is Fukino trying to tell us something? Is she giving hints about how to go about this?
MissTickly has strong evidence of this in this thread
Other freepers have weighed in and provided more evidence.
Conclusion and Homework
The facts may be this:
1. Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.
2. He applied for a late registration birth certificate, possibly in 2006 or 2007...
How do we prove it? All we need to do is find out if the birth certificate on file is a LATE birth certificate.
If there is a LATE birth certificate issued then by law it must be stamped "late or altered"
§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”.
Remember the first statement by Fukino? She had seen the "original" certificate? She never verified that the certificate floating online was the "original". The original would be marked "late" or "altered".
What IF the blacked out area of the first image posted on the internet said "Late or altered"?
There may be a way to legally get this information. It might be as simple as asking the Hawaii department of health to verify that Barak Obamas Certification of Birth on file is a late registration.
Go to it.
Let me speculate a bit about Fukino’s underlying motivations.
I think it’s extremely doubtful that she would insert clues into her statement in order to help investigator figure out that Obama was a fake.
In the first place, Hawaii is a very liberal state, and has been since its admission to the Union. In the second place, the last thing in the world she would do is to cross Obama or get on his bad side.
I think her motivation would be to help Obama, or at least not to offend him. But her motivation would also be to cover herself against criminal charges if the truth ever came out. So she cannot afford to tell an outright lie. She has to be extremely careful what she says.
I would imagine that both her statements were worked over extremely carefully to avoid potential problems for herself—to avoid angering Obama, and to avoid being caught lying about an official and extremely important matter.
He is also the one who Fukino gave her statement to. He is right in the thick of things.
Obama’s father was not a United States Citizen, so Barack Obama, Jr. could NOT be a Natural Born Citizen.
Was he adopted by Soetoro? If so would a new BC be issued?
Good points...cya. She's being as honest and truthful as she can without violating law.
I read your posts last night where you were putting this together.
This is the most plausible scenerio that I have read to date. It makes perfect sense.
The only thing that doesn’t make sense is the BC numbering. If the factcheck BC is the one that was indeed ordered in 2007 (see previous poster’s work on determining this date), why would the numbers be so close to the twin’s BC numbers? The only explanation is that the department reserved ranges of BC numbers for date periods in the event that there were amended or late registrations.
Thoughts?
“Your scenario could very well be true but I think this scenario explains his various trips to Hawaii.”
Exactly, he was having to “prove” (after the fact) that he was born in Hawaii. The forgers were working overtime to create the necessary documentation.
As far as I’m concerned, the “vital records” all need to be examined.....not just the long form BC which may not even exist.
I haven't looked into the adoption issue at all. Google Hawaii state laws (health department). They're referenced on the Hawaii gov website.
That was my thought exactly. It would seem a logical thing to reserve numbers for just such situations.
But remember that the COLB purported to be Obama's has never been verified as authentic by anyone in Hawaii. They are always careful in the statements to say that the documents they have on file are authentic. If the COLB floating around online is a forgery than it's likely they used an unused number or the number of someone else so the sequence would be close to when he said he was born.
Except that US law is explicit that a parent can't renounce their child's citizenship, and it's almost impossible for child under 18 to renounce.
It was also explain why his certificate number is greater than the twin’s numbers even though he was supposedly born prior to them.....
Personally, I think we are VERY close to the truth here in this post. But we would need to see ALL vital records.
Can any ordinary citizen request vital records? I realize there is a policy on who can request the actual birth certificate. But what about requesting the supporting documents i.e. Vital Records?
You have to keep in mind that this is a real issue. Regardless of “birther” or any other ‘nasty name calling’, that name calling is juvenile and is a really lame attempt to discredit something that is very real and very serious.
It was first done by Factcheck whos main job was to keep this information out of the conciseness of the Swing voters for long enough to get the usurper elected.
The lies presented by factcheck have merely persisteded because there is a population who desperately wants to believe it. In the face of mounting and overwhelming evidence to the contrary. With every hour that passes, it becomes MORE obvious: If Obama was legit, there should be NO PROBLEMS AT ALL in releasing ALL of his birth recordS. But he CAN NOT do that because he is not legitimately a Natural Born Citizen and he knows it. I am sure his staff does too at this point. Because that one single point is unavoidable and glaringly obvious.
If he is legit, the the release of the documentation would not be the problem it clearly is, it would have already BEEN released.
Not being an expert at Photoshop (like whoever TRIED to sell the above as a REAL doc) I had my wife do the red circle on the above doc, and then enlarge the area, and came up with this:
..which appeared like a date stamped on the back that "bled through". By "flipping" the image, enlarging and darkening it somewhat, it revealed this:
No, only parties with interest can. A Court Judge could issue subpoenas, and that would force Hawaii’s hand. Obama could release them with a phone call. In under 1 minute.
Are Obama’s Senate Travel records open to the public? If so, how do access them?
Wow good catch. Dan Nakaso is the reporter who had the statement first. Before the statement was put up on the website Dan had it. And all the stories that came out initially were based on Dan's story.
Hmmm...wonder if Dan is helping the birthers?
Yup.
I don't know. But on the hawaii health dept website is this:
Letters of Verification
Letters of verification may be issued in lieu of certified copies (HRS §338-14.3). This document verifies the existence of a birth/death/marriage/divorce certificate on file with the Department of Health and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event. (For example, that a certain named individual was born on a certain date at a certain place.) The verification process will not, however, disclose information about the vital event contained within the certificate that is unknown to and not provided by the applicant in the request.
Letters of verification are requested in similar fashion and using the same request forms as for certified copies.
The fee for a letter of verification is $5 per letter.
BUT look at the actual law:
[§338-14.3] Verification in lieu of a certified copy. (a) Subject to the requirements of section 338-18, the department of health, upon request, shall furnish to any applicant, in lieu of the issuance of a certified copy, a verification of the existence of a certificate and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event that pertains to the certificate.
(b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.
If my understanding is correct, you can ask for information to be verified.
For example, you could say: I want you to verify that Certification of Birth with certificate number xxx-xx-xxx has the name of Barak Hussein Obama as the person born.
” this will cause a lot of damage to the MSM, who are complicit in the cover up “
I think if Bambi is proven to have been ineligible when elected the media’s already crappy reputation will be devastated.
Much the way cbs and rather took a direct hit after their pathetic propaganda piece. And I hope they recover as well as rather did.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.