Posted on 07/26/2009 7:09:59 PM PDT by null and void
What's the worst that could happen?
Much ink has been devoted to the ongoing controversy about the constitutional legitimacy of the Obama presidency.
Briefly, there is fringe of True Believers that asserts Barack Obama was not born on US soil, of two American citizen parents, and is therefore not a "natural born citizen" making him ineligible to hold the office of the president.
These so-called "Birthers" assert that Barack was not born in the United States, that is was born in Kenya, making him a Kenyan by birth or Canada, making him a Canadian citizen or even that he's a British subject.
Indeed, they assert that the mere fact that Kenya was a British colony when Barack was born gives him at best dual citizenship as a British subject, under British law, and American citizen even if he was born in Honolulu, and that this dual citizenship at birth fails to meet the constitutional requirements.
In point of fact, any citizenship claims another country wishes to impose on an American are utterly irrelevant. To say otherwise would be to buy in to the absurdity that North Korea declaring that everyone on earth is a North Korean citizen would mean that no one is eligible to become the president of the United States!
For most people the image of Barack Obama's short form birth certificate posted on FactCheck.com suffices as a release of his true record of birth and as iron clad evidence that he is, in fact a "natural born citizen".
But for the Birthers? They insist that a computer image is not a valid legal document, that FactCheck is owned by the Anneberg Foundation - the same people who hired a young Barack Obama to be a community organizer, that even if the FactCheck document reflected reality, the short form is not even sufficient to qualify a 9 year old to join a Pop Warner team.
Birthers have tried to get a certified copy of Barack's long form birth certificate release by the state of Hawaii. They view access to this original document as crucial for making their case, as the State of Hawaii will release a short form certificate showing an Hawaiian place for birth for foreign born children and adoptees of Hawaiian residents.
Sighting quite reasonable privacy and identity theft concerns, Hawaii will not release a birth certificate except to the individual in question, or a small group of close relatives, or by court order.
Obviously Birthers could simply sue in any US court to have the real long form birth certificate released. Various Birthers have sued. So far, every case has been rejected on procedural grounds, mostly for "lack of standing". No court has heard a single case on its merits.
Individual citizens lack standing. Political opponents competing for the office of the president on the very same same ballot lack standing. People directly affected by fiat tax increases lack standing, etc.
The closest any case got to being heard was Cook Vs Good, where a reserve officer requested clarification of the legality of deployment orders. Rather than allow the case to go forward, his orders were instantly revoked, removing his standing.
Federal and private attorneys have burned through nearly $1,000,000 of taxpayer and campaign funds in a so far successful attempt to prevent Barack from being compelled to show a $10 document any lesser being would need to show to get a job flipping burgers.
It all boils down to "standing". To have "standing" one needs to be able to demonstrate to an American court that they, personally have been damaged.
So far, with the temporary exception of Maj. Cook, no US court has found that any American has standing.
What's the worst that could happen?
In the absence of certainty of Barack' ability to hold the office? Plenty.
No government employee, no member of the military, no citizen can know if any presidential order, finding, signature on any law, or treaty has any legal validity.
Worse, any foreign power sufficiently motivated can force the United States into a constitutional crisis at any point in a time and manner of their own choosing.
If, for example Barack Obama, acting as the president of the United States, imposes sanctions on North Korea, or Iran, or even Australia, the leader of that country would clearly have standing, and even more crucially, could go directly to the World Court to press their case and bypass all the legal nuancing a US court would suffer. No amount of courtroom shenanigans will keep the World Court from doing its duty.
It is very probable that in the absence of proper documentation, the World Court would find that the Barack Obama has no legal authority to act on behalf of the United States, and every treaty, agreement, and presidential finding he ever signed is null and void.
Every act of war engaged in under his illegal orders potentially becomes a war crime.
For the want of a $10 document, any hostile foreign power can, at any time, potentially take down the American government.
An honest president would find that this risk would far outweigh any personal embarrassment disclosure of the truth would cause him.
Vanity ping...
QUESTION: How can the OBAMA birth certificate said to have been officially “destroyed” in 2001 by the State of Hawaii — be later “examined” in 2008 by the Hawaii Health Dept and found to be valid?
State of Hawaii official Statement in October 2008:
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
___________________________________________
CNN President John Klein had asked CNN researchers to dig into the question of why Obama couldn’t produce the original birth certificate. The researchers contacted the Hawaii Health Dept. and confirmed that paper documents were discarded in 2001 when the department went paperless. That reportedly includes Pres. Obama’s original birth certificate.
State run media in process of trying to unring the bell now - good luck with that!
Who are YOU to question The One? </disgusted sarcasm>
An honest president would find that this risk would far outweigh any personal embarrassment disclosure of the truth would cause him.
Well put.
My main concern is for troops who may be grabbed by a nation like Iran. Suppose Iran puts them on trial as unlawful combatants and cites Obama as a illegitimate leader.
What does he do?
Does he allow those troops to go to trial because his pride won’t allow him to prove his legitimacy?
Does he launch a war to protect his pride.
Does he cave in to the demands and finally prove his legitimacy? (yes I actually hope he could)
None of these things are good. Even if he could prove his legitimacy, being forced to do so by a foreign govt would do serious damage to American standing in the world. Better that he prove it to “we the people” than be forced by a foreign entity.
I am nothing and nobody.
I AM null and void!
And he doesn’t have his own, personal copy that he could show us? While the actual ‘original’ record may have been “discarded”, I’d find it hard to believe that for all these years he hasn’t kept at least one certified copy of the original.
Don't change the subject. We are discussing Obama...
LOL!
Hello Mister Morford.
I do not trust those words reported of Mr. k’Lein. He’s said to be too okay with lying.
For the want of a $10 document, any hostile foreign power can, at any time, potentially take down the American government.
___________________
And BO doesn’t give a rip!
I used to wish that one of the SCOTUS’s would secretly meet with, let’s say Orly, and tell her what they’re looking for in a lawsuit so it would get heard.
Gave up on that wish when someone told there is no Santa Claus.
Maybe why those forensic people said it was fake was it was a computer copy that had been used or given to someone in family. It still does not make him natural citizen, if he wasn't born here. The Kenya certificate is only chance “birthers” will have, and who knows if they even kept good records like most US courthouses.
It is my understanding the Kenya step Grandmother said his mother was too close to delivery to fly, so he was born in Kenya, and left shortly after...so she flew back in few days, and registered his birth. How, what was said, etc noone knows, but person who took information, and may not remember or no longer be here. His mother and grandmother here are dead, so don't expect anyone here to answer these questions.
The real answer is if Kenya kept any birth records or documents, and everything there was sealed by Raila Odinga, PM. This issue is still a mystery, as to whether his mother claimed his birth as Hawaii or Kenya, and what answers were written down and used to fill in record online. There seemed to be a fear of Corsi, last year when he went to Kenya and was detained, then had to leave the country...that is suspicious. It was like they were scared of what he might be looking for. I don't know answer to this one, but Indonesia might, as he was in school there, and had to supply birth records probably.
Every American must demand to see his birth certificate; not that fake certicate of live birth, which is the Hawaiian equivalent of a fake green card. If there was ever a time to bring out the vicious lawyers, it is NOW!
Which nation’s passport did he use when he travelled to Pakistan at a time when US citizens could not visit Pakistan? Was it an Indonesian passport? Why can’t ordinary citizens have these questions answered in a court of law?
To say otherwise would be to buy in to the absurdity that North Korea declaring that everyone on earth is a North Korean citizen would mean that no one is eligible to become the president of the United States!
This argument just doesn't work, here's why, We have no treaties with North Korea that would allow them to inflict their citizenship on our citizens, however we do have treaties with Great Britain that define who is a citizen of our country and who is a subject of theirs and dare I say it those treaties were written in blood from both our countries.
As a rogue state barely recognised by the world community North Korea could never convince any court of law that such an action would counter our own existing laws but our treaties with Great Britain are legally binding having been ratified by our congress, and their Parliment.
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