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Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?
http://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism-and-christianity-as-violent-as-islam ^
| Raymond Ibrahim
Posted on 06/08/2009 11:04:36 AM PDT by ventanax5
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To: agere_contra
I did.
Stalin or Mao or his fellow Commies killing millions for political influence, is one thing. To blame that on Atheism, is just idiocy.
Like saying that guns kill people, and not the ones that pull the triggers...
61
posted on
06/08/2009 12:25:48 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: MyTwoCopperCoins
Your “atheism” is obviously “grounded” in ignorance.
You have no clue as to the nature of the God that you denounce as non-existant.
62
posted on
06/08/2009 12:26:01 PM PDT
by
MrB
(Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
To: MrB
Would the term be
“IGnostic”?
63
posted on
06/08/2009 12:26:47 PM PDT
by
MrB
(Go Galt now, save Bowman for later)
To: MyTwoCopperCoins
Like saying that guns kill people, and not the ones that pull the triggers...
You seem to have yourself in a little bind here. You cannot on one hand claim that religion kills -- and then use the gun / person analogy for atheism.
64
posted on
06/08/2009 12:26:58 PM PDT
by
rom
(Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
To: rom
As for Christian violence, that is the exception not the norm in Christianity. Same with the Hindus.
As for idol-worship:
That said...
The Bhagavad-Gita. |
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Chapter XII |
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ARJUNA:
LORD! of the men who serve Theetrue in heart |
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As God revealed; and of the men who serve, |
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Worshipping Thee Unrevealed, Unbodied, far, |
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Which take the better way of faith and life? |
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KRISHNA:
Whoever serve Meas I show Myself
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5 |
Constantly true, in full devotion fixed, |
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These hold I very holy. But who serve |
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Worshipping Me The One, The Invisible, |
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The Unrevealed, Unnamed, Unthinkable, |
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Uttermost, All-pervading, Highest, Sure |
10 |
Who thus adore Me, mastering their sense, |
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Of one set mind to all, glad in all good, |
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These blessed souls come unto Me. |
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Yet, hard |
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The travail is for whoso bend their minds |
15 |
To reach th Unmanifest. That viewless path |
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Shall scarce be trod by man bearing his flesh! |
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But whereso any doeth all his deeds, |
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Renouncing self in Me, full of Me, fixed |
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To serve only the Highest, night and day |
20 |
Musing on Mehim will I swiftly lift |
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Forth from lifes ocean of distress and death |
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Whose soul clings fast to Me. Cling thou to Me! |
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Clasp Me with heart and mind! so shalt thou dwell |
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Surely with Me on high. But if thy thought |
25 |
Droops from such height; if thou best weak to set |
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Body and soul upon Me constantly, |
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Despair not! give Me lower service! seek |
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To read Me, worshipping with steadfast will; |
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And, if thou canst not worship steadfastly, |
30 |
Work for Me, toil in works pleasing to Me! |
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For he that laboreth right for love of Me |
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Shall finally attain! But, if in this |
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Thy faint heart fails, bring Me thy failure! find |
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Refuge in Me! let fruits of labor go, |
35 |
Renouncing all for Me, with lowliest heart, |
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So shalt thou come; for, though to know is more |
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Than diligence, yet worship better is |
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Than knowing, and renouncing better still |
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Near to renunciationvery near |
40 |
Dwelleth Eternal Peace! |
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Who hateth nought |
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Of all which lives, living himself benign, |
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Compassionate, from arrogance exempt, |
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Exempt from love of self, unchangeable |
45 |
By good or ill; patient, contented, firm |
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In faith, mastering himself, true to his word, |
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Seeking Me, heart and soul; vowed unto Me, |
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That man I love! Who troubleth not his kind, |
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And is not troubled by them; clear of wrath, |
50 |
Living too high for gladness, grief, or fear, |
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That man I love! Who, dwelling quiet-eyed, |
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Stainless, serene, well-balanced, unperplexed, |
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Working with Me, yet from all works detached, |
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That man I love! Who, fixed in faith on Me, |
55 |
Dotes upon none, scorns none; rejoices not, |
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And grieves not, letting good and evil hap |
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Light when it will, and when it will depart, |
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That man I love! Who, unto friend and foe |
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Keeping an equal heart, with equal mind |
60 |
Bears shame and glory, with an equal peace |
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Takes heat and cold, pleasure and pain; abides |
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Quit of desires, hears praise or calumny |
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In passionless restraint, unmoved by each, |
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Linked by no ties to earth, steadfast in Me, |
65 |
That man I love! But most of all I love |
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Those happy ones to whom tis life to live |
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In single fervid faith and love unseeing, |
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Eating the blessèd Amrit of my Being! |
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Here endeth Chapter XII. of the Bhagavad-Gîtâ,
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70 |
entitled Bhakityôgô, or The Book of
|
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the Religion of Faith
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PS: Satan, God, Angels and Demons, all works of man's imagination.
65
posted on
06/08/2009 12:29:16 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: rom
You cannot on one hand claim that religion kills... I think you are imagining things again, unless my memory is slipping... care to point it out for me?
66
posted on
06/08/2009 12:30:24 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: MrB
>>the nature of the God
IMO, mankind’s attempts to understand God are akin to trying to explain inflight meals to a fish.
Or the blind men clustering around an elephant.
Some things may well be beyond our reach and comprehension.
67
posted on
06/08/2009 12:31:02 PM PDT
by
swarthyguy
("We may be crazy in Pakistan, but not completely out of our minds," ISI Gen. Ahmed Shujaa Pasha)
To: MrB
Go ahead, humor me. Make me believe...
68
posted on
06/08/2009 12:31:05 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: Jewbacca
I guess you’re accepting your defeat in this debate...
69
posted on
06/08/2009 12:32:09 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: Jewbacca
The hostility was against your faulty example, by the way.
You might want to sharpen your comprehension sklls.
70
posted on
06/08/2009 12:33:58 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: rom
>.Perhaps youd take a crack against suicide bombing Hindu Tamil Tigers too
Oh give me a break.
How many Hindus did you see agitating around the world for the war in SriLanka.
The protests were ethnically based, there was no browbeating and chestthumping BS about violence against Hindu Tamils by the Sinhalese.
Now, contrast with the wails and teethgnashing that accompanies say, the Israeli campaigns against Hamas and Hizbollah.
And also bear in mind that as in the case of Hindu on Christian violence, some of that is instigated by Marxists claiming to be Christians and whatnot.
In fact, a few months ago, the Naxalites admitted to the very thing after a spate of violence.
71
posted on
06/08/2009 12:35:22 PM PDT
by
swarthyguy
("We may be crazy in Pakistan, but not completely out of our minds," ISI Gen. Ahmed Shujaa Pasha)
To: MyTwoCopperCoins
I am admitting I don’t care what you think.
But you dropped the point that my tribe exists, despite the world’s best efforts.
And the Nazis were polytheists (especially the core), BTW, not Christians, so your “spawn of Judaism hates Jews” claim doesn’t work, as well.
72
posted on
06/08/2009 12:36:32 PM PDT
by
Jewbacca
(The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
To: rom
LOL, the Tamil Tigers are a Marxist-leaning terror outfit, and has barely anything to do with religion, other than worshiping Prabhakaran...
The top cadre comprised of both Hindus AND Christians.
Have you forgotten who Anton Balasingham was? Or Charles Anthony, for that matter?
73
posted on
06/08/2009 12:36:39 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: MyTwoCopperCoins
No, your hatred is pretty clear. It radiates from your posts.
74
posted on
06/08/2009 12:37:12 PM PDT
by
Jewbacca
(The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
To: MyTwoCopperCoins
A being is not exactly free, if it is threatened with detrimental consequences, for choices that it makes, before it does so.Incorrect. You are completely free. Even with a gun to your head, you can choose.
The essential freedom of Free Will is not reduced nor vitiated in any degree by the fact that our actions have consequences. We are not constrained to choose well - that would be the same as having no ability to choose. We are punished for choosing evil, but we may choose it.
Some people literally choose evil instead of good. It is a very terrible thing, and it happens. I have done it myself.
Fortunately we are in Time, and we still have a chance to retract our evil choices.
Not that you were doing this exactly, but be careful not to try to explain away your Free Will. Don't (for instance) imagine that we are predestined automata or leaves upon the wind, or something else that cannot choose its path. We are Men, with all the dreadful responsibility that that implies.
Hope this was helpful. UK time here, I am off home. Regards to all.
To: MyTwoCopperCoins
Oooh, Catholicism. Nice for you to open up that tangent. I’ll let my Catholic brothers deal with THAT. I’m sure they’ll have lots to say. I am not a Catholic.
As for the passage of the Bhagavad-Gita, that passage is NOT what passes for Hinduism — and you know it. Show me a Hindu temple without a single Idol.
And besides, Hindus believe that the Creation + Creator are all one. Which is logically nonsensical — along with reincarnation and caste systems.
But please, our argument is larger than the merits of Hinduism or lack thereof so let’s not get sidetracked. Rather, your beef is with ANY religion. Because, you are “smart” enough to believe there is NO possibility of a God. Be He Hindu, Islamic, Judeo-Christian or Other.
Now THAT takes some faith!
76
posted on
06/08/2009 12:37:57 PM PDT
by
rom
(Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
To: Jewbacca
NAZIS were polytheists? Who were their deities? The NAZIS came to power through the ballot-box. Who were the people who voted them in? What was their religious affiliation?
It was not in isolation that Hitler nurtured his anti-Jew madness. Germany had another historic figure, with an anti-Jew bent.
His name was Martin Luther.
77
posted on
06/08/2009 12:39:56 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: rom
The Bhagavad-Gita is the essence of Hinduism, and its most important text.
Catholic churches are full of statues and idols. But that is not what Christianity is about, so your temple logic is idiotic.
Hindus don’t believe that the Creator and Creation are one- just that the Divine is present in all beings.
It’s about as sensible as believing in an imaginary, infallible being that needs to test its own creation for faults.
Like I said before, all products of Man’s imagination.
78
posted on
06/08/2009 12:45:16 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
To: Man50D
The best thing I read on the Cairo speech was this. By calling it an address to the Muslim world, a geographically, ethnically diverse world, Obama and his cheerleaders implicitly accepted that Islam is Political.
79
posted on
06/08/2009 12:45:19 PM PDT
by
dervish
(I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
To: rom
Well, according to the Catholics, the Christians outside the Church are “Christians”, viz., heretics.
According to the Protestants, the Catholics are idolators.
What’s your persuation?
80
posted on
06/08/2009 12:47:12 PM PDT
by
MyTwoCopperCoins
(I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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