Posted on 05/14/2009 8:38:32 AM PDT by Williams
The VA is a good example of government health care in action. God help us.
Try talking to vets about Veterans Administration. My exPOW father-in-law depended on their government health care. What a wasteful/inadequate gov entity.
“Then ask if ALL of us should pay thousands of dollars more, every year, in taxes, so obese drug addicts and alcoholics can have the SAME health insurance as those who WORK FOR A LIVING and LIVE A RESPONSIBLE LIFE! “
Do you have an individual policy or does your employer pay for part of it?
Many people have pre-existing conditions, or perhaps a brush with something serious, like cancer, and cannot afford health insurance.
The GOP is going to have to do more than simply oppose nationalized healthcare. They are going to have to find a way to cover folks who presently are unable to purchase coverage, but want to.
I think the GOP is simply going to seek to perpetuate the status quo? Over time, this is a losing position, and may well be already. If there is no alternative to socialized medicine (besides the status quo) then we will get socialized medicine.
There are very very FEW people who want insurance and do not have insurance.
Every state in the union has an “assigned risk” pool, where insurance can be purchased, or they have mandated “guaranteed issue” rules, with companies that do business in their states, to issue certain policies.
YES, the premiums are expensive -—
But you should understand math, if you truly are an “engineer” -—
Insurance uses the “law of large numbers” and is intended for infrequent, LARGE expenses.
Much of our “uninsured” consists of dead beats who REFUSE to even pay for their company offered group insurance.
Then they get sick.
Then they DEMAND that the rest of us pay for their irresponsible behavior?
NO, I do not think so.
Bad things happen in life.
However, the taxpayers are NOT responsible for those who refused to purchase insurance PRIOR to their needs!
There is a series of commercials airing right now. Not sure who is doing them.
Health Savings Accounts are a big solution.
Also, we could reduce or eliminate the “income threshold” or percentage threshold for health care expense deductions, on our income taxes.
And, before you dismiss my “deadbeat” comments, please recall the Candidate Obama said basically the same thing, during the campaign. Obama stated that he might support “garnishment” of wages, in cases where employees refused to voluntarily step to the plate and be responsible about paying their insurance premiums.
“You are a leftie, and very uninformed lefty at that.”
Charming.
So, since I’m supposedly a leftie, and you didn’t answer my question, then am I to take it that while you opine at someone not paying for insurance, you yourself are not paying the full burden for yours.
If what I am supposing, judging by your knee-jerk hysterical reaction, is true, then you have no real idea what health insurance costs, especially for individual and small business rates, throwing in, perhaps a pre-existing condition.
Now, my brilliant friend, you should realize that the scenario of which I spoke is one which the GOP MUST deal with if they are to have a viable alternative, your hostile ramblings notwithstanding.
“Health Savings Accounts are a big solution.”
It’s a start. They’d work well if everyone actually saw the full burden of insurance costs and were willing to haggle at the doctors office.
HSA’s have actually not been very successful if you judge by the numbers - but HSA’s won’t cover, say, kidney dialysis if it’s a pre-existing condition. If it’s not pre-existing and becomes chronic, the underlying catastrophic policy will not be renewable at any reasonable cost.
You really don’t understand how the insurance game is played.
Certified Financial Planner
Licensed Health Insurance Agent for 25 years.
I have my OWN HSA.
YOU ARE WRONG!
An HSA will cover just about ANY medical expense known to man.
By the way:
GOVERNMENT INSURANCE PLANS DENY CLAIMS ALL THE TIME!
So there really is no way to say that any government plan will “fix” any problem found in private insurance.
I know this “game” much better than you ever will.
Our government is out to destroy the best health care in the world.
Again, many who find themselves with “preexisting conditions” were freeloaders BEFORE they got sick, people who simply refused to buy health insurance, at any price.
"OBAMA [video clip]: If you're going to fix it, why not do a universal health care system like the European countries?
It's a far cry from his promise we can keep our own insurance if we are satisfied AND if we so choose, we can get the same coverage as Congress has...(LOL).
sw
“So there really is no way to say that any government plan will “fix” any problem found in private insurance.”
I never said it would. I never advocated socialized medicine. I DID say that if the GOP doesn’t solve pre-existing condition issues on small business and individual policies with a proposal of their own we’re getting socialized medicine whether we like it or not.
“YOU ARE WRONG! An HSA will cover just about ANY medical expense known to man.”
Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been wrong, however, I’m not wrong about HSA’s NOT losing money on the insurance - so it is not a solution for pre-existing conditions.
Please Mr. Health Insurance Man, at least admit that much!
“Again, many who find themselves with “preexisting conditions” were freeloaders BEFORE they got sick, people who simply refused to buy health insurance, at any price.”
Ok, I’ll bite. So should your alleged “freeloaders” not be allowed to buy insurance now? Should they die? More importantly, should they not be allowed to vote?
Should anyone who actually needs medical care because of sickness or injury or chronic condition be allowed to buy insurance?
“I know this “game” much better than you ever will.”
Ok, Good. Since you are in the “game” then how about telling everyone the ballpark monthly cost on a policy for someone requiring kidney dialysis, and eventually a transplant. How about someone with a heart bypass previously? How about someone with a previous episode of cancer? How about a family policy for someone with a child that has cerebral palsy? How about someone with Multiple Sclerosis?
I already know the answer, but as an “insider” it would be instructive for you to verify whether any of the above “freeloaders” could even purchase insurance, and if so, how much it would cost?
An HSA plan is 2 DIFFERENT financial products:
A high deduct able insurance policy
PLUS
A Savings Account.
That, basically, is what Obama will do, trust me.
Insurance would cost about as much as many of the uninsured spend on beer, cigarettes and lottery tickets every month.
They CHOOSE not to buy health insurance -— until they get sick!
Also, many people decide not to “buy” Medicare Part B. The government makes them WAIT until an enrollment period rolls around, if they don't buy it when it is first available to them. And even then, they have to WAIT for the coverage to kick in. This applies to EVERYONE who does not follow the rules and sign up when they turn 65, or when they drop group coverage after 65.
Medicare has a SEPERATE phone line for “coordination of benefits” or DENIAL OF CLAIMS due to:
Homeowners policy liability
Auto policy liability
Workmen’s comp liability
Medicare does NOT cover experimental surgery.
Medicare will NOT pay for transplants in every case. The case must justify itself based on the lifestyle of the patient and chances for success.
We never hear about it when a government insurance plan does not pay a claim, but -—
It happens thousands of times a day! Also, if Medicare DOES pay your claim, and you later win a lawsuit against another driver, your employer, etc, Medicare will ATTACH PART OF THE JUDGEMENT --- And they have every right to do so! However, when private insurance does this, ignorant members of the media scream!
“Also, the “preexisting conditions” issue could be covered by a government MANDATE that everyone buy insurance -— how would that work for you?”
Ok, so what is the GOP alternative? When are you going to understand that is the question that needs to be answered?
The GOP doesnt’ have an alternative - do you think that is a good thing?
“Medicare does NOT cover experimental surgery.......It happens thousands of times a day!”
So is that YOUR alternative? Medicare? I never advocated it. I asked a simple question - what is the GOP alternative to socialized medicine? Is it to ignore the issue?
What is the GOP alternative? What should the alterative be? That’s the question. Quit talking about Medicare - because I’m not talking about Medicare.
Life is hard.
People should be allowed to take risks, in a free society.
If someone decides NOT to buy insurance, and then gets sick, there is a solution:
BANKRUPTCY!
A perfectly honorable option for people who guessed wrong and took risks they could not cover.
Also, as stated before, there are ALREADY options in every state for “Guaranteed Issue” policies.
Yes, they are very expensive.
However, if someone goes for, say, 10 years without paying insurance, gets sick, and then demands a policy, then that person SHOULD pay more than the rest of us, who planned ahead!
You want to cover the alcoholic, tobacco using, meth using criminal class (as one “uninsured” segment) at NO premium?
Why?
Sympathy is one thing. I do not judge those who guessed wrong, or failed to plan their futures well. We all make mistakes.
However, it is absolutely NOT the responsibility of the rest of us to “bail out” people who take bad risks.
You are REWARDING bad behavior, by telling people not to worry about buying their own insurance, since the government will guarantee them a policy, when the get sick?
How about I buy no auto insurance until -— After my next wreck???
Doing NOTHING is better than what Obama wants to do.
The alternative to blowing your brains out is NOT blowing your brains out, you are simply looking for a different gun to shoot ourselves with!
“You want to cover the alcoholic, tobacco using, meth using criminal class (as one “uninsured” segment) at NO premium?”
Do I? I never said that.
“You are REWARDING bad behavior, by telling people not to worry about buying their own insurance, since the government will guarantee them a policy, when the get sick?”
I am? When did I say that?
I asked: what is the GOP alternative to socialized medicine?
So, what is (or what should be) the GOP alternative to socialized medicine?
Can you take a stab at that question?
“Why is there an imperative that we do ANYTHING?”
Because it is political suicide to not have an alternative to socialized medicine AKA “free healthcare” when addressing the issue with the electorate.
“Doing NOTHING is better than what Obama wants to do.”
Ok, so how do you convince the electorate that NO insurance is better than “free” insurance? That is the task at hand if the GOP wants to live.
“The alternative to blowing your brains out is NOT blowing your brains out, you are simply looking for a different gun to shoot ourselves with!”
Doing nothing, in my opinion, is the “blow your brains out” option, politically speaking. It will re-elect Obama if it is tried. So, what is the alternative to socialized medicine? Is it really “Do Nothing”?
Since British accents have been the rage for the past few years, get Daniel Hannan to warn Americans about how awful things will be with Universal Health Care.
In case you forgot,Daniel Hannan is the British gentleman who gained fame when he ripped into Gordon Brown for his comments on the Global Financial Crisis.
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