6.5 seems to be the optimal caliber.After researching the 6.5 Grendel,
I was very impressed as it is superior
to the .308 in long distance knockdown.
Posted on 05/13/2009 7:19:28 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie
Two years after completing field testing, the new American assault rifle, SCAR, has been issued to a battalion of U.S. Army Rangers, who are headed for Afghanistan. SCAR (Special operations forces Combat Assault Rifle) was a SOCOM (Special Operations Command) effort to develop a new assault rifle that had some of the characteristics of the (now abandoned) U.S. Army XM-8 rifle. SOCOM had the money, and authority to develop their own weapons. And SCAR is mainly for use by SOCOM troops.
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SOCOM wanted a weapon that did everything the XM-8 did, and a little more. Back in 2003, SOCOM asked rifle manufacturers to submit proposals, and FN (a Belgian firm) came up with the best ideas. One advantage FN has was its ability to quickly implement requests for design changes. FN’s rapid prototyping shop was often able to turn out a new part in hours. This, and FNs long history of good weapons design, gave them the edge. SCAR has a more reliable short-stroke, gas piston operating system, and a floating barrel for better accuracy, plus several other improvements over the current M-4/M-16.
There are two basic models of the weapon. The 5.56mm SCAR-L weighs 7.7 pounds (empty), while the 7.62mm SCAR-H weighs 8.5 pounds (empty). A 30 round 5.56mm magazine weighs a little under a pound, while a 20 round magazine of 7.62mm ammo weighs a little over a pound. Special sights can weigh a pound or two, so a fully loaded SCAR won't weigh much more than ten pounds. FN also came up with a grenade launcher for SCAR.
Both models operate the same way, and have many interchangeable parts. SCAR-L is basically a replacement for the M4, which was designed (with a shorter barrel) as a “close combat” version of the M16. The SCAR-H will replace the M14, a 1950s era 7.62mm weapon (a replacement for the World War II M1) that is still favored for long range and sniper work. The SCAR design is the result of much feedback from the field. For example, the rate of fire was lowered to 600 RPM (rounds per minute) from the 800 typical with the M14 and M16. This makes SCAR easier to hold on target when firing full auto.
SCAR-H can be quickly converted to fire AK-47 ammo (the 7.62x39 round) with a change out of the barrel and receiver. Both models can be fitted with a longer and heavier sniper barrel. Thus this ability to quickly change the barrel length enables the SOCOM to equip their troops with the specific weapon they need. SCAR is also built to be more rugged than the M-16. The barrel is good for some 36,000 rounds, twice as many as the M-16. Barrels may be switched by users without special tools. Both models of SCAR take all the special sights and other accessories SOCOM troops favor. SCAR is meant to be easily modified and personalized for each user. It’s expected that SOCOM experience with SCAR will influence the next generation of U.S. Army and Marine Corps small arms.
FN makes the M-16A2, the M240 and the M2 in the USA (North Carolina ?).
They could make the rifle here easily, if they already don’t.
Unless theyre way behind enema lines they are unlikely to carry a conversion kit.
I’d like to see what kind of 7.62x39 magazines theyve come up with for the SCAR. Its hard to make that caliber work reliably in an AR size carbine.
The ammo supply chain is the reason.
We have tens of millions of 5.56mm rounds in variuos inventory locations.
Replacing/substituting that ammo means doubling the inventory for a considerable period, as weapons are switched out.
The rifles themselves would be the easy change.
New weapons are depot-level mods to the M-16/M-4 (and SAW?) to support the new caliber.
Personally, the 5.56mm caliber if fine.
Hits count.
Whenever I hear a guy say, “I pumped a full mag into him and he didn’t go down”, I think: “You missed.”
I really doubt the SCAR will be used in a modular role any more than the M-4. Nobody’s gonna carry a spare barrel. However, being able to switch out a barrel would be great for maintenance purposes. Should eliminate depot-level requirements.
With a proper design? None.
I can see the more rounds per pound issue though.
I took my M-1 garand out of the safe yesterday and was out of breath carrying it upstairs...not being young anymore I have an excuse, but still, you hike all day with an 11 lb weapon, and I can see you wanting to dump it for a 7 lb weapon with the ability to carry a whole bunch of extra ammo.
As I understand it, they are hard to shoot while laying on your belly.
Particularly slick is the automatic conversion from closed bolt to open bolt when the barrel heats up.
The 6.5 Grendel, like the 7.62X39, looks a little fat to me for optimal use in this action, although it's looking great on paper.
That was disappointing, however mix in a few 7.62 guys and it won’t be a problem.
.308 is a strong round. 30.06 is a lot stronger.
Apparently, and I am not at all sure of the actual metrics, but I have been recently instructed that the two rounds are not quite identical, and one should not use the MILSPEC ammo in a civilian .308. Or is it vice-versa?
I date back to the M-14, and also have hunted with a .308. The .308 is a great round, and easily available in all kinds of interesting loads.
“The 6.8 is the way to go, and it’s battle tested.
For a rifle that size, you cant beat it for sheer knockdown and stomp em power.”
Sure you can, with a 6.5 Grendel. At least with the Grendel you can hit out well past 300 yards - out to 800+ no problem. If you need extra short-range performance, you can use a lighter bullet - but the 120 gr. bullets provide an excellent balance.
If a 62 gr. 5.56 bullet was even close to sufficient, a 120 gr. 6.5 bullet is plenty. If you want to see the terminal effects, take a look at the JFK shooting video - that’s about right (that was with FMJ military ammo, slightly heavier bullet at lower velocity).
The 123 gr. Scenar from the Grendel exceeds the ballistics of the 147 gr. 7.62 ball round by a good bit - out of a lightweight AR platform.
6.5 seems to be the optimal caliber.After researching the 6.5 Grendel,
I was very impressed as it is superior
to the .308 in long distance knockdown.
agreed
That 6.5 Grendel certainly gets the job done at long range. That is exactly what is lacking right now, too.
Wonder what the logistics plan for a caliber change actually is, at this point.
Me too.
There is nothing new under the sun.
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